Training methods

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

We have started this sub-board for a very important part of owning a Boerboel, it would be interesting to hear about the different methods used by the forum members.

Anne and Shaun

[sandaharr]

I use bits and pieces from all the books I've read and will do what works for individual dogs,have found that not all the same things work for different dogs.The one thing I do that is the same for every pup we have is to attend ringcraft classes to teach basic manners with people and other dogs.It keeps them well socialised, and builds their confidence.I do all manner of crazy thing when they are puppies to get them used to sounds,it seems to work.My personal favourite is to turn on Paul Simon's Graceland CD,turn it up quite loud and stamp my feet and clap my hands,every single dog and puppy I do this with loves it as a game,it's hilarious.Sandra.

[caroline]

SUNDAYS IS A DAY OF REST?

Every Sunday morning my husband Michael and I train dogs. It is something which naturally occurred due to our abilities and relationships with our own dogs and the achievements we have accomplished with them over the years and the desire to help as many people and dogs out there that we can. We specialize in mastiff breeds and other guard breeds, which are our first love, but train all breeds.

Puppies Classes
Puppies Classes are an invaluable start to your dogs life. They are a safe environment where you can be given important advice, socialize your dog and begin basic training. Making small corrections with a puppy or young dog is easier and quicker than trying to correct ingrained, undesirable behavior in a big, strong adolescent or adult who has decided he likes it his way. So many people wrongly believe that "their" dog does not need training, especially when they have a small cute puppy. They believe loving their dog, feeding it, and taking it to the vet is enough. But if you love your dog you need to train it. All dogs need structure, boundaries and consistency in their lives for them to be balanced, just like we do. Without it they become unruly, depressed and at times aggressive this applies to all the breeds. There is a built up of frustration in these dogs and the only way they can tell us is to start being uncooperative. If we do not notice this shift in behavior the symptoms increase. We have seen the beginning of dogs trying to put themselves into a dominant role so many times even when training puppies. One lady said when I told her not to allow her dog to keep pulling her towards dogs, people etc., "but he is only a baby", I said "yes but he is a baby Rottweiller". I told her to let him explore when he is on his lead but under her terms. If he could make her go where he wanted when he wanted now imagine a 8/9 stone adult making all the first moves. This also asserts her dominance over him instead of the other way round. The puppies were all told to sit and if they did not do this after the second command they are placed into the sit with the use of aids. I walked over to the same lady to assist her and was told that the puppy was distracted and he was too excited to sit now. This is another example of submissive behavior on the owners behalf that the puppy will pick up on and use to his advantage to control her. I pointed out to her that she needed to again show him that when she wants him to do something that he needs to do it. People do not realize that this can be the start of dominance as it can be quite discreet at the beginning but will build up with time. When it becomes really noticeable is when the dog is starting to take command of a situation. You do not want it to reach this stage as the dog has decided he wants to be the boss and if you do not give him this position of your own free will he will start to try and take it for himself. We see different degrees of this when the dog is bullying the owner and nipping which builds up to full on biting if not corrected.
 
Adult Classes
Some people find it quite scary the day they are told they are moving up to the adult class with all the big dogs. They do not want to leave the comfort zone. It is a bit like a child going up to big school. But this is all part of them reaching their potential. In the adult class we have the ones who have progressed from puppy class, some owners who have just decided they want to train their adult dogs and dogs that people have re-homed. Some with behavioral issues, some who need training and some who need both.
Desperate owners arrive on the morning who have reached the end of their tether because of their dogs bad behavior, dominance etc. They have let their dogs run their lives for years and they want it to stop, now! Do not let this be you or someone you know, with a conscious effort you can move towards training your dog before you have a problem rather than because you have a problem. It takes patience, time and effort to train a dog but you will certainly reap the rewards when you are the proud owner of a balanced, grounded adult. People are extremely impressed when they see a well trained dog in tune with their owner. It has been said to me when I have been training my Boerboel in the training class by a woman with a Yorkshire Terrier that my dog was easier to train than hers. That was because my dog is trained and he gave the impression to her that my dog was easier to walk, train, control than hers because he was following my commands and knew his place.
People talk of a definite turning point, a day or time that they can recall when they were attending classes when they felt a change or shift in their dogs behavior. A time when they saw a light, just a glimmer, at the end of a very long tunnel. This is the moment of breakthrough when they have just connected with their dog for the first time and it is quite a moment. We have seen people who when they first came to us felt they had the worst dog in the field/world. We look at them and for the first time they are proud of the dog they have and not wanting to change it for someone else's, and you can bet that other dog they wanted is a trained dog, they say "look my dog is better than theirs", and they actually mean it. It is sad when that person no longer comes because you were used to seeing them there every week, but wonderful to know they are not there because they obtained their goal. They are with their dog enjoying each others company in the park, or just watching television and we have new dogs and we are ready to begin again.
Written by Caroline Jones – Owner of Anasha Archie
E-mail- [e-mail]
 

[sandaharr]

What a great reply.As breeders and people that have trained and shown for many years you automatically assume that most people know all this,but I'm amazed when people come to visit and some don't have a clue.Some really common sense things and they can't work it out.It is great when you see the light going on in their head though and you know it has finally clicked in them! sandra.

[buliebuse]

Hi Sandra
I totally agree that dogs are not all the same - like kids.
But Paul Simons 'Graceland' ?
Thats cruel
Ju

[buliebuse]

Hi all
As regards training - I think one of the key issues is consistency.
I am home alone at the moment with Buse for the week - she is a bit bewildered as no one else is about. She kept coming up to sit at my feet & then lay a paw over my legs - as soon as that happened I told her to go lie down.
But I must however stress all I really wanted to do was have her on the sofa with me & then allow her upstairs to cuddle up on the bed.
No , No - sometimes as much as you love them - you have to 'be cruel to be kind'
Ju

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

Thanks for those interesting posts. What do you think about rewards? Personally we never give food rewards, I would say that just about everything we do with puppies is about training in some way. When we pet them we make them sit, when feeding they have to wait for our command. Even when they have to go to the toilet, we say "tis" which means pee, and when they do they get big hugs and loads of praise.

We do not tell them off as such, we growl, just as their mother would. We never use corporal punishment. You would be surprised what a proper growl can do to turn a puppy into an angel.

In our opinion, everything in the first year of life is about domination and socialisation, get these things wrong and there can be big trouble.

We give our puppy buyers a possibility for a service visit at their own homes every 3 months, this way we can catch the problems when they are small. We can see how the dogs are developing and give advice about feeding (too fat/thin). For those who live close by, we offer training groups on the weekends. For the especially difficult dog we offer an extensive training program that is meant to teach the owner how to bring the dog under control again.

If puppy buyers call us and feel that there are problems, we make a house call and sort things out. We also ask people to write a diary every time something goes wrong, this way often a pattern emerges that is easy to break. The dog´s behaviour is dependant on the owner´s behaviour, if the owner changes his/her behaviour the dog will often follow.

Understimulation can also be a problem for dogs that have an inbuilt urge to work, but are stuck at home. Has anyone any ideas for activation of these dogs so that they feel more satisfied and less frustrated?

Regards
Anne and Shaun

[mayahund]

Hi!
As mentioned I have 2 girls and they're totaly diffrent when it comes to training! Chili is a dominant female that started obidience when she was 4 months old. No treats were allowed. She's now 2 years old and I sure know when I haven't done any obidiencetraining for a while. She will test me and thinks she knows best herself!

As for treats I am a strong believer in the fact that the dog should do things for me and not for the amount of candy I have in my pocket Currently there's a huge discussion in Sweden as to one should train with or without candy. It's looked upon as being oldfashioned if you don't use treats by many people.

Mubi is a totaly diffrent story! She's born and lived 2 years in S.A and probably got her fair share of a method that involved a more "hands on" training. If I get irritated with her and raise my voice she will just drop to the ground, stomach firmly pressed to the soil and one leg out in each direction! There's no way of moving her! So I have to use a totaly diffrent approach with her. Which mainly consists of treats and ignoring her when she doesn't obey and just keep on telling her what I want in a nice voice and then praise her loads when she does the right thing. Mubi is as good as gold and therefore this is not a problem to me.

Mubi was menta ltested this summer with an exellent outcome I must add (Brag a little;)

My conclusion is that all dogs are individuals and should be trained thereafter!

The importance of socalisation and training can't be stressed often enough though. I hope everybody that is looking for a puppy by now knows that the first 2 years of a bb's lfe are the most important ones (atleast according to me) when it comes to socalisation and training and nobody should fool themselfes into believing its easy work since it has to be done so much more persistenlty than with f.ex a spaniel, lab or rottweiler.

I raving....sorry!!!! Can go on forever about this topic!

Anyway; News; We have signed both dogs up for a trialday at "Rally Obidience" on the 16/9. Rally Obidience is supposed to have come over from USA/Canada but I'm not sure if its called the same. It's a mixture between obidience, agility and freestyle dancing. We are really looking forward to this since Chili's been convalescent for months but we hope she will be able to attend this event. Will bring camera ofcourse!!

Ewa

[bakkies]

Shaun, I do use rewards, but no food. Just when I train a puppy or a dog that does not know the command.

The reward must be a "Jackpot" for the dogs. For some it is a hug, for some the voice. I use a ball or a dummy.

I am not THAT strikt but I if I give him a command he has to do it.

He has such a high drive that it is easy to reward him with a ball, which makes the training easy.

I enjoyed reading all these postings because you all know what you are doing and what is the best for your dogs

[buliebuse]

Hi Guys
With Buse I use abit of both - reward & then no reward.
When road walking her in the city I make sure she sees me putting treats into my left hand pocket.With this I find I have her undivided attention & nose very close all the time no matter what distractions. It does not however always result in her getting a treat.
At the moment having just come up to @ 15 months old - we are again trying to push the teenage boundaries ! We never raise our voice to her & tend to use hand signals more than voice commands , these hand signals are used by all the family & are consistent.
At the moment with Clive & the kids away she is trying to push her luck a little bit - the defiant stare etc. But eventually by standing my ground gently but firmly she has to do as she is told.
when in fields etc she'll only tend to wander a short distance away especially if there is only one of us. But if for instance shes gone round a corner at full tilt & come across another dog & owner we have a whistle .One peep on it & she turns on a sixpence & comes straight back.
Ju

[caroline]

Hi Everyone

In response to Anne and Shauns post on reward training and growling at puppies.

I do not begin to believe that I know everything all I can tell you about is my personal experiences with dogs and hope that something I may tell you may help you or someone you know. That is what I believe dog training to be all about and if you don't learn anything then I hope you just enjoy reading some of my pieces. You will have to excuse the passion sometimes but if I type any faster I am going to blow up the computer.

I personally do not believe in keep bribing a dog with food to do what you want it to do, especially your own dog. To me this is submissive. Michael and I do not use food in training unless the circumstances are exceptional. For instance a nervous dog can need winning over and some puppies who are not excitable enough to win over with your, shall we call it your personality, may need extra coaxing. When training other peoples dogs however we do need to create a very quick relationship so may use food at times to make friends more than anything else and not as a training aid. This is because we then will need to take this dog from the owner and train it ourselves. I have known trainers who use food as a way to actually get the dog to follow the food instead of actually training the dog. This is a whole lot easier than actually training the dog and will accomplish nothing, but can look very impressive to the novice until they run out of cheese. It is a bit like a donkey following a carrot. I use my voice and timing is crucial.

For instance, I had a Doberman/Rottweiller cross, I have been told this is a wicked cross which made the dog even more unpredictable. That dog threw himself all over the show rather than submit to me. He bit my hands, not very hard thank god, and threw himself in the air head height, he threw a right wobbly. Him and I went round and round with him fighting me all the way because neither he or I would submit. I can assure you I did not get out a piece of cheese. But I must make it clear no punishment was used. I was going to have to dominate him. But to do this I had to prove to him that I was worthy. I was firm but fair if I had not had been I would have been bitten. I still had more in me but all of a sudden he just threw himself on his side and showed me his belly. His eyes had totally changed he no longer looked wild he was calm and sleepy. I sat there stroking his belly and he went more onto his back. Then the owners came over and stroked his belly aswell. He is such a beautiful dog but dominant and with two female owners who were frightened of him he had taken control of them aswell as himself. He had bit his owners that morning before training so I had decided right we are having no more of that. I worked alot on the owners and the dog on a 1 to 1 basis. Teaching them how to control him and how to be more assertive. He certainly was a wild one when he first came. I did not know if they could do it but the younger of the two really took to my methods and came on in leaps and bounds followed by the other one who was more shy. They do not come anymore because they reached their personal goal.

Everyone has a goal.

I fully agree with Annes method of growling and have used it on a very aggressive Shiba Inu puppy bitch. She had a horrible temper and was cruel to the other puppies. I stood there watching. The woman just stood there with this wild thing on the end of the lead, she did not say or do anything and any puppy that came up to it was attacked and its ears bitten. I said something about her puppy being spiteful and that she must do something about it. She said she was so pleased someone had mentioned it because she did not know what to do. I got down on my hands and knees picked the puppy up and put it straight on its back and growled at it. It was a little surprised to say the least and I think everyone else was too. I said in the future if she had any problems or questions not to be shy but to ask as that was they only way she was going to learn and get help. I was proud to say after that she was always asking questions and grew in confidence from this shy little thing. Her first reaction then was to try and keep the puppy away from all the other puppies on a tight lead. I said now we have to teach her some manners so she knows the right way to behave with the other dogs. She and I worked on that puppy letting her go up to the other puppies and them come to her. When she gave an undesirable reaction she was picked up placed on her back and growled at. Gradually the time span between each time we needed to do this grew. I was proud to say this woman did everything I told her to do in class and at home. We get a lot of pleasure from helping these people find they can actually enjoy their dogs but these are only two examples of the people we have helped.

To take it back to Archie he has always been given praise when he had done as he is told. I too used the lots of praise after toileting and he is told to toilet. Still now he will rush into the house for his praise as he has been. He came in very excited from the garden yesterday. I said come on show me thinking he may have found a bird or something and he took me down to the bottom of the garden to show me a fresh poo!
I hope you are all still awake. I think I have earn a cup of tea.

Caroline.

p.s Welcome Gerri

[sandaharr]

One of the best things to train a puppy to do is to go 'pee pee' or 'poop' on command,it saves so much time wandering about in the cold and rainy nights!!LOL Sandra.

[bakkies]

Thats true Sandra. We call it "Mach mal BUBU!"

[bulieboerboels]

Hi Sandra I couldnt agree more that getting your dogs to toilet on command is a very usefull thing to teach as like yourself it makes night time walkies a lot quicker when dealing with several dogs.Ours usually oblige.Some do try to hang it out a bit longer especially if it is not raining but raising my voice slightly seems to do the trick on these occasions.I can personally vouch for Caroline and Michaels dog training classes as we have always taken our puppies to training classes to socialize them with other dogs and people.Took Ralph to the classes they attend/help to instruct and was very pleased the way things are done and actually explained as to why certain things are done a certain way.I dont know who was worn out the most me or Ralph.Got to say though I will have to work on the STAND command as it was heavy going trying to convince Ralph with my hand to stand ;D regards Paul.

[bulieboerboels]

Forgot to mention I used approx 5 pieces of cheese on the training session.I was so busy concentrating I forgot I had it.Also it struck me that although we have spent a lot of time training with our dogs and most of us know what we should and should not do with our dogs a different training class actually shows us or reminds us to actually do it.I would highly reccommend to everyone to try different trainer/classes from time to time.It really helps the concentration.Roll on next week.Regards Paul.

[buliebuse]

Hi Paul
Glad to know you also use cheese - this is Buses fav.
I also have a problem with the stand - we'll get there eventually!
Ju

[bulieboerboels]

Hi Julie for some unknown reason Ralph decided last week to do the most wonderful stands and held them for a couple of minutes.Found it better to actually move foward slightly from a sit position but put my knee in fornt of his chest as he was getting up.Also the cheese helped.Disgraced his self later when put in a down position he rolled over and started to go to sleep.Do you think he would go back to the sit position.It was however at the end of a very busy training session.Regards Paul.

[bulieboerboels]

Just like to thank Shaun and Anne for letting me loose to do a bit of training and socialising with Sonny.He really is a great little puppy.He loves the puppy treats I used with him and almost got him in my pocket but he is now growing too big to fit.He also likes cheese.Thought I would spoil him a bit.Regards Paul.

[buliebuse]

Hi Guys
Have just had a response from a trainer in Cheltenham who is willing to do 1 to 1.She apologized for the delay but as she didn't know the breed took time out to investigate etc on the net.
First session is next Thursday - shall let you know how things go.
Ju

[buliebuse]

Buse got over excited at the weekend when I was out with her & Clive had his face in the rugby - she seems to have pulled a shoulder joint so is now sulking as is on road walks only for the next week.

[temwani]

Ju,

What a great picture - You will have to play training games to cheer her up!

Can she beat her friend at staying?

Geri

[buliebuse]

Hi Geri
No chance - you'll notice my hand in the background there.
She's a sulky madame - but it's for her own good.
Looking forward to next week with our first 1 to 1 & the new trainer.
Ju

[buliebuse]

Hi Guys
Thought I'd update on training.
The first trainer insisted I met & greeted with Buse on a lead & then wanted her put in the cage for the rest of the lesson!
Have since swapped trainers & all is going really well - have picked up some interesting tips that I never thought about before.
Ju

[bulieboerboels]

Hi Julie glad to hear the new trainer is working out.Be pleased to hear of any interesting hints and tips you may have.Regards Paul.

[buliebuse]

Hi Paul
Basic stuff that I hadn't really thought about springs to mind.
We've moved the stair gate to the kitchen doorway - so that now takes the 'pressure' off Buse trying to guard the front door & hallway - she does not have access. We go to the door first. But yet we know if we weren't here & someone 'let' themselves in she would bulldoze the gate down to get to them.
Secondly on the 'stay' have been doing really well - also with Sim.I was going wrong in walking back from them & facing them as opposed to with my back turned.Basic stuff I know - but then I can be a bit dipsy!

[buliebuse]

Pic attached of dog trainers girl who is 12.
This was after Buse had been out on a lead and normal collar walk only with 3 strangers arranged by the trainer to come up & want to chat etc at various points.No choke,no halti & definately no prong collar.
Killer dog or what?

[sandaharr]

Aw Jules,she looks so like Zeke,makes me miss him!.
That is a great pic ,I think you've found exactly the right trainer,well done.

[buliebuse]

Hi Guys
Picking up on training again.
Sim is brilliant - having come straight from Mum Toska to Buse the matriac he is very confident when out & about with Buse.(he does not flinch at anything, just follows Buses example)
However when out alone can tend to be what I would class as slightly fear agressive (ie lack of confidence).
What is the best way to deal with this display - to growl or to reassure etc.
Would also be interested to know - for instance Martine if you have experienced this with Jada if out & about without Tanner.
Input please
Ju

[marty43]

Hi ju
I used to have the same problem with tanner he was scared of everything that moved and ran away. I had to reassure him and give him confidence in that we were there to protect him if you like. He is not as bad now that he is maturing. Jada is the opposite not scared of anything, she just goes upto people with her tail wagging, she is very independant. I think sim will grow out of it. Maybe you should take him out more by himself to allow him to become more confident by himself, so buse is not there all the time to protect him . Im no expert, just a suggestion.x

[buliebuse]

Hi Martine
Yep thats what we decided as well - to take him for more walks by himself & try to build up his self-confidence.
The problem is he soooo dotes on Buse!
Come the end of this month they will be separated for a while as Buse is going into be spayed - so complete rest away from the little terrorist!
Ju