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Post by buliebuse on Sept 11, 2006 8:02:52 GMT
Have just been reading the UKBC board. Apparently an owner has bred from a 13 month old bitch - Amandla Baden. I remember her from this years appraisal & she not only didn't make 75% but her state of health etc looked absolutely dreadful  Ju |
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Post by bulieboerboels on Sept 11, 2006 9:26:34 GMT
Hi Julie that is terrible news.Apparently the guy in question runs a security company. I have passed all the details on to a member of the British Professional dog trainers association who will be contacting other members to make sure they are aware of the situation.Will also post warnings on our website.Regards Paul.
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Post by Shaun Eric Ewing on Sept 11, 2006 10:19:40 GMT
Hello Paul, I have modified your post. Although I feel that it is important that these issues are discussed. I think that it is best not to point the finger as such to specific people.
In the past we have seen a lot of finger pointing and not all of it is true. I think that we ought to try and keep this board as neutral as possible.
There are always at least two sides to a story and it is impossible to form a reasonably correct opinion without hearing/seeing things from both sides.
Shaun
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Post by temwani on Sept 12, 2006 18:27:22 GMT
Hi Shaun,
It would be good to find out more about these puppies. I didn't see the female at the appraisal but if she really was in a poor state she may have trouble raising the puppies. Maybe some of us could offer to help.
Geri
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Post by mayahund on Sept 12, 2006 18:30:45 GMT
Hi Geri!
Just saw at the UKBC that the woman who owns the bitch has been posting an open invitation there to contact her and come over for coffe and see the state of the dog for themselfes. Maybe you could take her up on her offer?
Ewa
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Post by sandaharr on Sept 12, 2006 18:35:41 GMT
Vicki has been in touch and is going to send pics of Tia,she says she is in great health.Hope she is fine,I think the pups are due in October.
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Post by temwani on Sept 12, 2006 18:44:02 GMT
Hi Ewa and Sandra,
That is great news. At least if we can keep a dialogue going with people we can try and help even if we don't agree with what people are doing. It is a shame though that the puppies will be un-registered and may well lead to more un-registered puppies in the future.
We will try and visit - maybe we could arrange to go at the end of the month.
Geri
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Post by sandaharr on Sept 12, 2006 19:08:50 GMT
I know I meant to ask her about the unregistered pup bit,don't know what is going to happen there.Sandra.
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vicki
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Post by vicki on Sept 12, 2006 22:28:28 GMT
as i can see you all have been very busy on here as well as the uk bb message board, my webiste is www.topguardkennels.co.uk contact anyone in the american bulldog world for their opinion of mark and his dogs, the invitation is open to all you lot as well, a few people have taken us up on our offer and have appologised for judging without knowing the fully story. as for the offer of help thanks but no thanks its not needed myself and mark no what we're doing with our dogs a dont need any out side help! you'll also find our telephone numbers on the web site or you could ask sandra.......... |
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Post by Shaun Eric Ewing on Sept 13, 2006 5:53:34 GMT
Hello Vicki and welcome to this forum. I think that you will find that all sorts of people are members here including some open minded people who would like to hear both sides of the story before making any decisions.
As a start I would like to say that I am no stranger to Mark (topguard kennel), I met him 4 or 5 years ago and was very impressed with his American Bulldogs. It was obvious to me that Mark had a passion about his dogs that is rarely seen. The dogs were obviously in top form and his reputation in the American Bulldog world is respectable.
Knowing this, I was surprised at the post showing the female on the UKBC board, however not surprised at the one-sided reaction towards a breeder who was not a part of the UKBC clique.
Shaun
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Post by Shaun Eric Ewing on Sept 13, 2006 5:59:56 GMT
Hi Ewa and Sandra, It is a shame though that the puppies will be un-registered and may well lead to more un-registered puppies in the future. Geri There is no certainty that the pups will be unregistered Geri. As long as the female is appraised succesfully before the pups are 4 months old, they can be registered in SABT. If not I am sure that EBBASA will help to register the pups. You must remember that for the SA registries, females of this age having pups is an everyday occurance, in fact I will even dare to say that in SA it is the norm. It is also done in USA without too many eyebrows being raised. Here in Europe, other norms are considered acceptable, but accidents do happen, even to the best. Regards Shaun |
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Post by sandaharr on Sept 13, 2006 6:00:22 GMT
Vicki,I think you and Mark are going to be quite busy with visits,which can only be a positive thing.I know Jan is looking forward to coming out and seeing your dogs.Wish we could make it down,but Harry would just come away with an American pup or book to go hunting with Mark.
Don't think people are sticking their nose in here,Geri was very genuine in her offer,it's not said nastily.
The boerboel world is,as you know,very small and MOST people like to look out for each other,they are only thinking about Tia,that's not a bad thing,try not to take offence and just accept it the way it's meant. Sandra.
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Post by bakkies on Sept 13, 2006 8:31:15 GMT
One question: was the female appraised? What was the appraisal score? Was the male appraised?
What about hips, ellbows and so on?
Why breed on such a young dog?
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Post by sandaharr on Sept 13, 2006 9:10:32 GMT
Both parents have been appraised,all results and pics removed from the UKBC site,so I couldn't tell you exactly what the scores were,sorry. Sandra.
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Post by mayahund on Sept 13, 2006 9:26:48 GMT
Hi Vicki!
Welcome to the board. Nice to see you coming aboard to answer questions that has arissen. I hope you will find this board a bit less condemning though. I think and hope that the goal for most of the people in her right now is to keep an open mind and discuss issues. Not condem at first chanse. Atleast that decition was made when we started up this board.
Just out of curiosity, has all appraised dogs been removed or just the parents in question? And does anyone know why they've been removed? It's an action that sounds somewhat strange to me.
Regards
Ewa
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Post by sandaharr on Sept 13, 2006 11:02:12 GMT
All dogs scores and pics removed,not just Vicki's.Possibly they are updating site? Sandra.
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Post by bakkies on Sept 13, 2006 11:13:02 GMT
I haven them online in my forum.
Amandla Baden
Tia
Tia
M Beasley
74.3
F
A
04/07/2005
This dog is not appraised, again: Why breed this dog? Why should the EBBASA help to register these puppies? Why let someone get away with this?
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vicki
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Post by vicki on Sept 13, 2006 11:21:59 GMT
hello
thank you for all comments. all pictures of 2006 and results have been removed. i dont want to argue with anyone myself and mark are passionate about this breed and care very much for all dogs not just our own i couldnt sit back and take what had been said with fighting back. i'm happy to answer any question you may have on any of my dogs and if anyone does want to come and visit you all are more than welcome
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Post by bakkies on Sept 13, 2006 11:34:15 GMT
Why don´t you answer my questions?  |
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Post by Shaun Eric Ewing on Sept 13, 2006 11:39:43 GMT
I haven them online in my forum. This dog is not appraised, again: Why breed this dog? Why should the EBBASA help to register these puppies? Why let someone get away with this? Hello Meike, firstly the dog is appraised it scored, it just did not score enough at the appraisal to get registered as a breeding female. Taking into account the age and condition of the female, there is no reason to believe that it would not score enough next time it is appraised. Secondly the owner has said that the mating occured by accident, it was not a planned breeding so no-one is trying to breed unregistered pups. Nobody is trying to get away with anything. If the dog scores enough next time, is there any reason why the puppies should not be registered after all they are pure bred Boerboels? We have seen something like this happen in the past, the attitude of the EBBASA was that as long as the parents scored enough at an EBBASA appraisal, the pups could be registered with EBBASA. Which I think is fair enough. Regards Shaun |
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Post by bakkies on Sept 13, 2006 12:11:09 GMT
I did not know it was an accident, did I miss the posting about that?
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vicki
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Post by vicki on Sept 13, 2006 12:59:25 GMT
no you didnt give me the chance, i'm heavily pregnant and mark took me away for a week to relax as we've had a stressful time this summer our kennels hand didnt use his common sense and run all bb together resulting a tie, he didnt tell us until our return too late to take tia to the vets. both tia and vandal who is the sire have excellent pedigrees there is no reason why these pups should be anything but excellent examples of the breed.
its taken me so long to reply because i'm working i hope thats ok with you
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vicki
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Post by vicki on Sept 13, 2006 12:59:58 GMT
thank you for your suppport shaun
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Post by bakkies on Sept 13, 2006 13:59:34 GMT
Thank you Vicki.
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Post by temwani on Sept 13, 2006 19:36:06 GMT
Hi Vicki,
No offence was intended and apologies for any upset caused. Paul and I genuinely would like to offer help to other breeders in the UK. We have had our turn of being attacked and know that too often people jump to conclusions and spread news that is actually all false accusations. It would not have surprised us to have you say that it was a different dog that had been mated. Unfortunately what ever you say is somehow misunderstood and then passed on. It does not surprise us to read on the UKBC board that Sandra has had visitors saying they had been told that her dogs were all aggressive. We have had a similar experience. We always invite people to come to see us and judge for themselves. This then makes the situation backfire, because people discover the truth about our dogs and want to buy them.
It is great news from Shaun that you can get your bitch appraised and hence register the puppies. We are not far away from you and I hope we will be able to visit? I have family who live in sussex so quite often drive down your way - Paul doesn't come though - he is allergic to visiting family!!!
Geri
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vicki
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Post by vicki on Sept 13, 2006 19:46:03 GMT
hi geri
thank you for your message i do appologies for any messages may of offended anyone on this board i'm very protective over what i love.
your more than welcome to come up myself mark and the dogs should be moving to sussex shortly so its even less for you to travel.
i'm going to be following sandra's lead and keeping my distance from the other board, itds not healthy the way they are towards people and there dogs which is a shame as i feel they could see and learn alot more if they gave people the chance......
on a good note mark has decided to add to our boerboel family he'll be visiting shaun who has been a great support and has offered some of the best advice i've heard for a long time
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Post by temwani on Sept 13, 2006 20:00:28 GMT
Hi Vicki,
That's great! I have personally never posted on the other board and keep telling Paul not to - because it always ends up in trouble but he can't resist winding people up! In the end if we all avoid it - I believe it will be better for the BB in the UK. We are going out to Denmark in october and I will talk to Paul about when we can visit you.
Cheers
Geri
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Post by Shaun Eric Ewing on Sept 14, 2006 5:46:54 GMT
Hi Vicki, In the end if we all avoid it - I believe it will be better for the BB in the UK. Cheers Geri I have always supported the other board, and the idea behind a club for the UK. I feel it could be very positive for people to be able to work together to better the breed, we even became members of UKBC in order to show solidarity and help them. However over the last 4 years or so since the UKBC was started, the club has gone downhill. Instead of being used to better the breed it has been used to isolate breeders by making negative statements about them and by using the customer information given to them by SABT to contact the customers and slander the breeders. Nobody is more disappointed than Anne and I about this development. Obviously this cannot go on indefinately and we have now withdrawn our support for the UKBC. I think that their talk board has been ruined by negative people, and these same negative people are driving people away. They will always be there and the best thing to do is to have this alternative place where bigotry is not allowed. In the end when there is nobody else to slander and fight, they will slander and fight each other, it lies in their nature. Anne and I are really glad that the members of this forum have done so much to make this forum work, and now it is time to start planning for the next step that will give breeders and owners in UK a chance to function in an entirely positive environment. We, the breeders and owners, need an alternative club in UK, one that will not only accept SABT breeders, but also EBBASA, in other words a club that is politically unbiased. A club where any customer details will remain as priviledged information and that will respect the laws regarding data protection. Who agrees? Shaun |
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Post by bakkies on Sept 14, 2006 8:42:26 GMT
I agree, although I do not live in the UK. It´s a very good idea. We have a Club in germany, but it is not accepted by the registries. Hope this comes in the future. Geri, maybe we can meet in Denmark, it was so nice gotten to know Paul, you are missing  |
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Post by mayahund on Sept 14, 2006 9:21:43 GMT
Why are you thinking so small Shaun???
Let's go ballistic from day one instead!!
This is what i am thinking; in most european countrys there isn't enough people, let alone bb-owners to start individual bb-clubs. Why not start an European BB-club instead?
That way most breeder that want to, could be included and all owners that's interrested. That way we could maybe get a strong club with a bit of "voice" behind it who will also be easy to find for prosective buyers, newbeginners etc. etc.
Ewa
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