The Burglar Alarm

[caroline]

My passion and dedication to dogs leads me to share these thoughts.
If someone cannot truly commit to a dog for the "whole" of its life. To give it leadership, exercise, stability, veterinary care, affection, obviously, food, water, I could go on, To recognize and admit they need help, and to get it, when they know either they/the dog or both need it. If all they want is a machine with no feelings, or needs, something they can switch on and off, a commodity. If they just want something to protect their possessions. Buy a Burglar Alarm! An alarm comes with a manual, has on and off buttons and is exactly the same as all the others in the range with no deviation from the normal. Also, if someone tires of it they can have it ripped out and no-one and nothing gets hurt.

Caroline

[buliebuse]

Hi Caroline
I share your passion & dedication to dogs - but am a realist.
I have comodities , a car, house etc.
I also have 2 young teenagers & a hubby who very often is called out late in the night - we all sleep easy, no doors locked as we have our 2 BBs.
A burglar alarm is easily tampered with a BB is not.
Regards
Ju

[caroline]

Hi Ju
I would rather lock the doors. To be honest my dog would not be put in danger by a burglar. The burglar would have to get past me first. Also re A burglar alarm is easily tampered with a BB is not.
Mace, Pet Corrector, more aggressive dog than yours, gun, knife, bitch on heat etc etc.

Caroline

[temwani]

Hi Caroline,

I agree totally with you - That's how I got Tony - the only person who wanted him actually wanted an alarm and my friend wasn't prepared to let her have him. So, I bought a dog door so he could have the run of the garden and the house while I was at work. I can't believe it is 15 years I have had him and he is now looking older every week.

Geri

[karen]

hi I have to agree. People expect their dogs to be guard dogs and lovaby family pets. It's often a recipe for disaster. How's a dog to know whos at the front door. If someone enters the property at night chances are your dog will let you know so and defend you anyway. As part of the pack which is you and your family a dog will do the natural thing and protect his and his own. We shouldn't expect them to act as guards, no wonder people get hurt.

karen

[mayahund]

caz said:

My passion and dedication to dogs leads me to share these thoughts.
If someone cannot truly commit to a dog for the "whole" of its life. To give it leadership, exercise, stability, veterinary care, affection, obviously, food, water, I could go on, To recognize and admit they need help, and to get it, when they know either they/the dog or both need it. If all they want is a machine with no feelings, or needs, something they can switch on and off, a commodity. If they just want something to protect their possessions. Buy a Burglar Alarm! An alarm comes with a manual, has on and off buttons and is exactly the same as all the others in the range with no deviation from the normal. Also, if someone tires of it they can have it ripped out and no-one and nothing gets hurt.

Caroline

Of course there's people out there buying dogs instead of burglar alarms but I do think you make a very sweeping comment here. I do believe most people buy a dog because they think they can supply what a dog needs but doesn't realize just exactly how much work there is involved making a "good" dog.

Some of them will get help, some won't, but that's a bit like it is with kids isn't it, it's always "my dear children and your brats". It's hard for some to see their own faults.

I always tell people if you put in serious hard work the first 2-3 years you'll have a great dog that is both a great defender and a lovely family pet.
Ewa

[buliebuse]

Hi Guys
Would just to like ask at this point just what everyones definition of what a BB was bred for?It seems to differ to mine - they do what it says on the tin surely?
Caroline,Karen & Geri can I be rude & ask just how many BBs you have living with you on your property/in your house?
If I didn't want my BBs to guard when I wasn't there /or in danger I'd have bought a Lab.
As ever just MHO.
Ju

[caroline]

Hi Ju

I have living in my house, one very dominant, entire, Anasha Male who is just over 3. I have never used or will use any dog of mine as a guard dog. I have had someone try to gain access to my property when I owned a Bullmastiff and an English Mastiff who both lived together inside my house. This youth high on drugs, tried to force his way in through my front door. My husband and I forced the door closed, after stamping on the intruders foot, and kept the dogs behind us. Even when the intruder smashed out our window the dogs were kept out of it. So what I say is what I do. I also got punched in the face when I went outside, where were my dogs safely in the house. In reference to what I interpreted as a insinuation that I only own one dog, there's dogs and theirs dogs.


The deterrent is people knowing they are living at your property. I don't believe any dog should be used more as a threat.

Caroline

[buliebuse]

Hi Caroline
We might need to differ on this point of view - if humans didn't we'd all be married to the same bloke - God forbid.
I'm sorry if you interpreted an insinuation of only 1 dog - that was not how it was meant (blinking emails & posts are so often mis-construed)
I don't use my dogs as a threat - they come up town with us, car boots, fetes, shows etc - where we go, they go.
On returning from a great weekend with Ewa in Sweden the front door (double-glazed) was all smashed in.The dogs had done this when 2 youths had tried to gain access.My Mum is 70+ & looking after the 2 teenagers, all asleep upstairs.Would it have been right for her to confront them? IMHO No.
Anyone is welcome in our house at anytime - as long as one of us is there, the dogs accept that we are the leaders & they will not attack.
I do not keep a dog & bark myself ;D
All the above meant with the best intentions.
Regards
Ju

[caroline]

Ju

Thanks for that, I'll just tell you a little about what I am about. None of this is meant as a insult to anyone so don't take offence.

My husband and I help people train and re-habilitate their dogs. We get a phone call, then go to meet a perfect stranger, which is why we do it together, with a dog we have never met before. We don't know how truthful this person has been about their dogs problems. We make an assessment of the dog and owners. Then tell them what they are doing right and wrong and how to change, and how to correct it. If a dog is dog aggressive I will take their dog from them and walk it round the park with the owner, to give their dog possitive experiences of other dogs with their newly found confident temporary dog owner, I say that because every persons dog when it is with me is confident when I have it because my body language etc tells them its safe. When their dog is happy and more confident with other dogs, the owner sees this and then feels confident that their dog is not going to attack everything. I then give them their dog back and we practise together. When I can see dog and owner are okay. End of session. Obviously I am monitoring their dog and if they were getting stressed we would stop there and continue another day. Thats why sometimes I feel as though I own more than one dog. Because I have lots of dogs out there that belonged to me for a short time. A kind of holiday. Then they go home. One dog was a 7 year old jack russell who had been attacked on 4 different occassions by different breeds of dog. The last one, a bullmastiff had ripped its neck out and it needed a lot of stitches. After me having it and taking it round by other dogs, monitoring how it was coping and then increasing the size of dog and quantities, we were surrounded closely by 4 at one time, it showed it was the sweetest bitch, it was just scared. It came up to me, as if to say thank you, then rushed up to the owner so excited. We only do this part-time as Michael, my hubbie, has a full-time job. We do it as we enjoy it and to help people have a more rewarding relationship with their dogs.

Training your own dog which is done from puppyhood on a daily basis is so much easier that re-habilitating and training a strangers dog. It takes knowledge, experience, skill, courage, dedication, determination, timing, quick thinking etc.


Caroline

[jenny]

I've got to chime in here. Living on a farm in South Africa where the breed originates from, my views are probably, by necessity, very different from those in Europe. Our dogs are an essential part of our security and yes, my dogs guard. They act as a deterrent firstly, but if push comes to shove, they can and will take down and bite an intruder. This is what they were bred for. What on earth is the point of owning a guarding breed and not expecting it to guard?
Of course, all dogs should be under control and I personally have to work hard at maintain the "off" button with my dogs rather than encouraging them to engage, as they will do this without any prompting from me. Out here, every intruder has to be treated as hostile until proven otherwise, to do anything else is madness and positively dangerous. Most people keep their dogs outside, especially at night, as a first line of defence. Personally, I don't do this as I think my dogs are safer if they are with us and we are safer if we are with them, we use them as a last line of defence to give us time to hit the panic button or take other measures to ensure everyone's safety.
This is a working companion dog with strong guarding instincts and to expect anything else is to misrepresent the breed and potentially endanger both dogs and owners.
I apologise for being a bit strident about this, but it is doing this breed a disservice to pretend it is anything other than it is, a bloody good guard dog and a terrific family companion.

[mayahund]

jenny said:

I've got to chime in here. Living on a farm in South Africa where the breed originates from, my views are probably, by necessity, very different from those in Europe. Our dogs are an essential part of our security and yes, my dogs guard. They act as a deterrent firstly, but if push comes to shove, they can and will take down and bite an intruder. This is what they were bred for. What on earth is the point of owning a guarding breed and not expecting it to guard?
Of course, all dogs should be under control and I personally have to work hard at maintain the "off" button with my dogs rather than encouraging them to engage, as they will do this without any prompting from me. Out here, every intruder has to be treated as hostile until proven otherwise, to do anything else is madness and positively dangerous. Most people keep their dogs outside, especially at night, as a first line of defence. Personally, I don't do this as I think my dogs are safer if they are with us and we are safer if we are with them, we use them as a last line of defence to give us time to hit the panic button or take other measures to ensure everyone's safety.
This is a working companion dog with strong guarding instincts and to expect anything else is to misrepresent the breed and potentially endanger both dogs and owners.
I apologise for being a bit strident about this, but it is doing this breed a disservice to pretend it is anything other than it is, a bloody good guard dog and a terrific family companion.

Very well put Jenny especially the very last part.
Ewa

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

jenny said:

I've got to chime in here. Living on a farm in South Africa where the breed originates from, my views are probably, by necessity, very different from those in Europe. Our dogs are an essential part of our security and yes, my dogs guard. They act as a deterrent firstly, but if push comes to shove, they can and will take down and bite an intruder. This is what they were bred for. What on earth is the point of owning a guarding breed and not expecting it to guard?
Of course, all dogs should be under control and I personally have to work hard at maintain the "off" button with my dogs rather than encouraging them to engage, as they will do this without any prompting from me. Out here, every intruder has to be treated as hostile until proven otherwise, to do anything else is madness and positively dangerous. Most people keep their dogs outside, especially at night, as a first line of defence. Personally, I don't do this as I think my dogs are safer if they are with us and we are safer if we are with them, we use them as a last line of defence to give us time to hit the panic button or take other measures to ensure everyone's safety.
This is a working companion dog with strong guarding instincts and to expect anything else is to misrepresent the breed and potentially endanger both dogs and owners.
I apologise for being a bit strident about this, but it is doing this breed a disservice to pretend it is anything other than it is, a bloody good guard dog and a terrific family companion.

Hi Jenny, I have to agree with you. The dogs we have in a house are family dogs as we do not have the same dangers here as you do, but if anything happens I expect my dogs to protect me and I am sure they will.
We bought our first Boerboel as a guard dog as we had 3 break ins. We have had a couple of people trying to break in but the Boerboels scared them away.
Anne

[countryboy]

I'll throw my pennies worth in!!

I'm with JU on this one. My R Ridgeback is a pet and guard and my new Neo pup will be expected to do the same hopefully better!
Surely you rely on your dogs instincts. If a unwanted guest enters while your asleep would you not hope your dog would do his bit? As far as a dog knowing friend from foe some dogs do this better than others? If you believe half of whats written is this not a trait of the BB and Neo come to that?

Simon

[caroline]

jenny said:

I've got to chime in here. Living on a farm in South Africa where the breed originates from, my views are probably, by necessity, very different from those in Europe. Our dogs are an essential part of our security and yes, my dogs guard. They act as a deterrent firstly, but if push comes to shove, they can and will take down and bite an intruder. This is what they were bred for. What on earth is the point of owning a guarding breed and not expecting it to guard?
Of course, all dogs should be under control and I personally have to work hard at maintain the "off" button with my dogs rather than encouraging them to engage, as they will do this without any prompting from me. Out here, every intruder has to be treated as hostile until pr oven otherwise, to do anything else is madness and positively dangerous. Most people keep their dogs outside, especially at night, as a first line of defense. Personally, I don't do this as I think my dogs are safer if they are with us and we are safer if we are with them, we use them as a last line of defense to give us time to hit the panic button or take other measures to ensure everyone's safety.
This is a working companion dog with strong guarding instincts and to expect anything else is to misrepresent the breed and potentially endanger both dogs and owners.
I apologies for being a bit strident about this, but it is doing this breed a disservice to pretend it is anything other than it is, a bloody good guard dog and a terrific family companion.

This is an extremely good answer Jenny. I agree in the fact that your circumstances are totally different to mine, so obviously your choices are different. I agree also that you say they are used as a deterrent firstly and like you say if push comes to shove where you live you don't have a lot of choice. In my country people have I feel to be vigilant in a different way because the laws are so biased against dogs, especially guard dogs and my opinion is one or two slip ups could result in a breed being banned. In this country you cannot even use what they term excessive force if someone breaks into your house.

Caroline

[jenny]

Hi again
This is where there is a real dilemma for breeders in countries where the dog laws are so harsh. This breed was designed to protect, so if these instincts are such that they make the dogs unacceptable in some places these days then what to do? The three main options as I see it are:
1. Breed dogs with less of this instinct and therefore by definition change the breed.

or

2. Don't breed these dogs in those countries.

or

3. Be extremely careful who you let puppies go to in order to protect the breed from the wrong people who want these dogs for all the wrong reasons.

As far as I am aware there have been very few, if any, incidents with these dogs in Europe, so I guess most breeders are getting it right! Long may it continue and may the ignorant who ignore these things and continue to publicise the breed incorrectly be wholeheartedly slapped into submission by everyone concerned. They are the real threat to the breed.

Crikey! That's me being strident again!

[buliebuse]

Hi all
Simon - I'll throw my 2&6 in !The pics look great, shall email via private messages re posting them the easy way on the board.

Caroline, I whole heartily endorse what you are doing as regards dog re-hab etc , I could never do it, I don't have those sort of initials/qualifications under my belt.I just know & read my 2 dogs, in the same vein as the kids.

Jenny - well said SA is a different kettle of fish so to speak.In the UK most of us aren't as fortunate to have the land etc.As regards the dog laws, it is my understanding (Could well be wrong) if you 'advertise' over here on your property 'Beware of the Dog' etc you are admitting that you own a dangerous dog & are therefore liable if anything happens.I personally stick with the sign 'beware of the teenagers' - far more effective
Ju

[jenny]

Hi Ju
I had the same understanding of the dog laws when I lived in the U.K. You couldn't say "beware of the dog" you had these stupid signs that said "dogs running free". It came to my attention that the Dangerous Dogs Act was being interpreted in very sad ways too when a friend of mine had a young GSD that jumped up in exuberance at a passer by, nothing aggressive just a big Hello and was prosecuted under the Act as the passer by felt "threatened". All I can say is they would feel ruddy threatened if was me on the other end of the lead! I know people need to be protected from the bad owners out there, but persecuting dogs is not my idea of dealing with the problem, the bad people just go out and get another dog to ruin. Persecute and prosecute the owners by all means, but leave the dogs alone!
By the way, you couldn't manage another teenager could you? I'd rather take on a pack of snarling hyenas than my son's smelly bedroom, not to mention the moodies, the music, the mobile phones, iPods, X-Box and spotty friends!
Give me strength! Thank the Lord for dogs!

[caroline]

Hi Jenny

jenny said:

Hi Ju
I had the same understanding of the dog laws when I lived in the U.K. You couldn't say "beware of the dog" you had these stupid signs that said "dogs running free". It came to my attention that the Dangerous Dogs Act was being interpreted in very sad ways too when a friend of mine had a young GSD that jumped up in exuberance at a passer by, nothing aggressive just a big Hello and was prosecuted under the Act as the passer by felt "threatened". All I can say is they would feel ruddy threatened if was me on the other end of the lead! I know people need to be protected from the bad owners out there, but persecuting dogs is not my idea of dealing with the problem, the bad people just go out and get another dog to ruin. Persecute and prosecute the owners by all means, but leave the dogs alone!
By the way, you couldn't manage another teenager could you? I'd rather take on a pack of snarling hyenas than my son's smelly bedroom, not to mention the moodies, the music, the mobile phones, iPods, X-Box and spotty friends!
Give me strength! Thank the Lord for dogs!

You have said it all! I don't mean that in an insulting way. But in this country the law in so many cases falls extremely short. It is true about the signs, especially the ones that say Guard Dog. In this country I feel people should discourage their dogs from jumping up friends, and strangers (and themselves but this may feel a little excessive to some people). This may be a friendly greeting to the dog but we have seen owners trying to defend their dogs life when a friendly dog saying hello accidentally scratched someone. People over here have been in trouble for protecting themselves from burglars. You may be in fear for your life, the burglar may be using excessive force, but we shouldn't use it back. Who decides what is excessive? What are we supposed to do offer them a meal and a glass of wine and just let them take and do what they want? This is one of the points I was trying to make when I said about getting a burglar alarm. I know in some ways it sounds slightly out of context. If someone is a genuine dog lover, get a dog as well. I wasn't having a go at people who care for their dogs, but the devils out there that don't. I feel some people may have mis-understood what my first message really said. Or was it just the clumsy way I put it. Apolgies if it was. But if any of your felt insulted this is only because you are obviously not the type of people this subject was aimed at. Thank god at the moment by the sound of it we haven't got any these types in the breed at the moment, but they are out there and this was meant for them.

We have been told by friends who have a business that they have to make their property safe in case a burglar hurts themself while trying to break in. What a joke! I was going to ask why you had moved to S.A. but I think your messages speak for themselves. Nice to meet you by the way. This is all my honest opinion. I apologize to the people who already know all this but this is aimed at the people who don't.

Caroline

[mayahund]

caz said:

Hi Jenny

jenny said:

We have been told by friends who have a business that they have to make their property safe in case a burglar hurts themself while trying to break in. What a joke! I was going to ask why you had moved to S.A. but I think your messages speak for themselves. Nice to meet you by the way. This is all my honest opinion. I apologize to the people who already know all this but this is aimed at the people who don't.

Caroline

We have the exact same system over here. BUT if the dog acts to defend me AND with no more force than necessary to make the intruder harmless - we just might get away with it! But then we must have signs all over the place saying "beware of dog" - in order for the poor little intruder to know what he's getting himself into
Ewa

[jenny]

Hi Caroline
Nice to meet you too.
I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your post, I just feel quite strongly about people having dogs, especially working dogs for all the wrong reasons. A dog like a Boerboel is a serious working dog who loves to do his job protecting his family and gets immensely frustrated if he's prevented from doing this. At least, that's how it seems with my lot!
People should have Boerboels for what they are, not get one and try to change them into something else. A bit like getting married and thinking you can change your husband's ways, it never works, better off changing husbands, like Ju does!

[karen]

I don't have bbs yet, I have been brought up with German Shepherds which are loyal family pets and yes Guard dogs. Dogs are dogs and they all have the same psychology, Just as Humans have human psychology. The one thing I do now is that all balanced dogs have the heart to protect their families. I'm not sure the original post was targeting BBs atall. I'l say it again Dogs do the protect thing naturally. But under no circumstance should any dog paticulary large family dogs be openly encouraged to act aggressivley. I just feel it's irresponsable to bring aggressive tendencies out in family pets. In this day and age I do not want to see such an amazing breed as the BB targeted by the ill informed media. I'm sure no one here wants their beloved dogs put down. We have to take responsibility for our dogs not the other way around. I don't mean to sound funny and a i see that different countries require different things from their dogs. I'm sure the SA BB has a very balanced life. It's a case of different horses for different courses.

[jenny]

Hi Karen
Given your reply above, how do you view the working qualifications available to guarding breeds?

[karen]

hi Jenny

I recognise the need for Guarding breeds. The thing is there are people who really work with their dogs and whatever it is they do barring dog fighting I think its wonderful. Dogs need to be worked to fullfill their basic needs and be balanced. However most dogs I work with are within a family enviroment and I see the effects of aggression and the damage it can do. It takes a strong owner to keep on top of any unbalanced dog, if they were more informed to begin with they'd be a lot less dogs put down. As for working qualifications I can honestly say I not clued up on these. I would be interested to have more info, if you'd supply some I'd be most greatful. I believe depending on the enviroment people have different expectations of their dogs. I can only report from my own findings of dogs within familys. I see a need for protection ofcourse but I think they do this instinctively and within that enviroment I've see the dangers of bringing aggression out in family pets. I'm sure living in S.A it's a totally different ball game. I live in the middle of no where and my dogs act as guard dogs too. I just see the distruction forced out aggression can cause. I worry for the dogs and the innocent people out there.