Mixed Breed Litter in Ireland

[coomore]

May I respectfully suggest that in future instances like this, we all refrain from discussing it openly on public message boards. It merely serves to alert dog fighting scum and other ill intentioned people that a cheap Boerboel puppy is available and to inform them where it is located. It is far better to implement a solution quietly and quickly and to get the pups to safety before there is any chance of nefarious people becoming aware of their existence.

In this situation unfortunately, despite lengthy discussions, a solution was not possible as the breeders were more interested in money than the ultimate welfare of the puppies.

[buliebuse]

For all EU members
Nefarious = infamous by way of being extremely wicked.
It is obvious Mr Brennan when you look at different message boards as to what & why people want/have a BB.
I'm afraid I tackle head on & don't sweep it under the carpet.
Ju

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

I think that I must ask you mr. Brennan to refrain from writing statements like "In this situation unfortunately, despite lengthy discussions, a solution was not possible as the breeders were more interested in money than the ultimate welfare of the puppies."
This is an extremely negative comment about someone we know little about. You must not use this board to slander people that do not have the same interests as yourself. I am sure that the UKBC board would appreciate your post and it´s unmistakable tone, however, if you want to post here, you must try to be civil towards others.

This is a copy of an email they sent us yesterday:
" Thank you for your response. I am already in contact with Carine. Our dogs
are Boerboels but we are making sure that they aren't advertised as
registered, we flew them from SA recently. I have been trying to get them
registered but am now it turns out not able to register the puppies but will
hopefully be able to register the Father in May or June. We are determind to
find them good homes where they will be looked after properly & treated as
family members. I am working in conjunction with an animal rights group to
find them the right places in this world (here in Ireland).

Keep well.
Roche"

I do not get the impression that they are greedy at all, maybe they just care about who their puppies go to and they have caught on that the UKBC would not neccesarily put the puppies interests over their own.

Shaun

[sandaharr]

Shaun,I received an e-mail from them in a similar vein,and I also got the impression that they cared what happened to their pups.They have also had hips and elbows done on both dogs,so they are heading in the right direction.I have asked what their scores were,no word as yet.

[boerhunter77]

Hi Sandra,

Its worth checking with them directly though I was told that the dam has a hipscore of 60. Very sad that she has been bred if this is true. Though I agree 1000% that they need help to carefully home the pups.

Jon

[sandaharr]

Oooo,60's poor,best to have her spayed in case of any accidents in the future.Just my humble opinion of course.

[buliebuse]

If you've had no word yet - how come Jon seems to know?
Or is this just UKBC heresay?
Interesting question for you guys if a bitch had a large litter would you cull or hand-rear?
Ju

[sandaharr]

Depends on whether I have a trip booked in the coming weeks..........

[buliebuse]

So if you did have - you'd cull?
Ju

[sandaharr]

Well I have to say for starters if I had a bitch due to whelp under no circumstances would I be going anywhere from 10 days before she was due,in fact I wouldn't go anywhere while she was pregnant,but I'm a sad son of a gun!!LOL.

I know of breeders that cull if there are too many pups for the bitch to look after and that won't hand rear,I also know of breeders that cull males in a litter or pups with liver noses.

For those of you who don't already know, we have just come through a really horrific time with a new strain of Parvo being brought in to our place and I fought tooth and nail to try and get every last pup through that and some were really at deaths door.I ended up a bit of a basket case but a pups life is worth everything to me and the only way I would have a puppy PTS is if there was a defect in it that would hamper it's normal life.If the litter is big,no I would not cull,if the pups had liver noses,no I would not cull(still make perfectly good pets without papers),if I had a puppy with 3 legs,yes,I would have it PTS,if I had a puppy with cleft palate,yes,I would have it PTS.
I don't know if these comments make me a good or a bad breeder but there you are.

[buliebuse]

Hi Sandra
I think IMHO you are a good breeder.
If humans can't get away with euthanizing 'babies' as they are deformed , why should breeders?
My RR breeder was told to euthanize several of her litter as they were not 'cosmetically correct' - KC for you I guess.
Don't get me wrong if a pup is in pain or is seriously deformed etc then yes the only option is to put down. But if its a case of the breeder can't spend the time etc - I just can't understand the justification for it.
If I fell pregnant with triplets & thought - can only cope with 1 I think I would be in prison right now!
Ju

[bakkies]

This is what I found on the UK board:

Members of the UKBC were approached about a week ago by Ms Nirvana in Eire
wanting to advertise a litter of "Boerboel" puppies, which are now 9 weeks
old. The members of the UKBC board and James Brennan, UKBC member and
EBBASA representative for the UK and Ireland met with and/or spoke at length
to the owners, Ms Rochelle Nirvana and her mother, Saxone.

Saxone and Rochelle bought the parents of the litter in question whilst they
were living in South Africa. Neither of the dogs came with papers from any
organisation or even known parentage and the bitch, Lola, is definitely a
cross-breed. There is no possibility of these pups ever being registered.
Furthermore, Lola's hip score is BVA 60, i.e. she is severely displastic.

The UKBC has offered to take charge of the litter and home them
appropriately at its own expense. This offer has been rejected because the
owners 'want to make some money back'.

The UKBC has been reluctant to give any publicity to this litter for obvious
reasons. However, Ms Nirvana has recently e-mailed everybody she can find
purporting that these are Boerboel puppies whose parents will be registered
in due course and the litter has been discussed on other boards. We
therefore now think it appropriate to make the full facts known.

These pups are mongrels, they will never be accepted as Boerboels and the
mother has severe hip displasia and should never have been bred. No matter
how sorry you feel for the pups, please do not put any money in these
people's hands. Otherwise, there will be another litter of mixed-breed,
potentially crippled pups in 6 months time.

Lucinda Fletcher-Neal

For the UKBC

As far as I understand is the mother a cross breed and has very bad hips and she tries to sell them and wants to make some money instead of looking for a good home for some (eventually) ill dogs.

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

Meike, when you only get half the story, you can only understand it the way someone wants you to. I understand it differently because the people involved have told me differently. To me it looks like another smear campagne by the UKBC.

[countryboy]

I no i'm the new boy on the block and still boerboel-less but there's no smoke without fire.
Also it seems there more than just one person or one organisation involved.
If theres a positive thing to come out of it which there must be!? its how passionate everyone is and how its highten the awarness of such litters and lets face theres going to have been plenty of others that didin't make the headlines even with such a tight group as boerboel owners..

Simon

[buliebuse]

Yep I agree with you Simon
BB owners are a tight-knit community - & I am a strong believer in not brushing under the carpet,judging etc but even though not a breeder will try to help & offer support
Ju (Aka God/Marilyn)
PS do us a favour - use the spell check !

[temwani]

Hi Shaun,

It is great to hear that you have talked to these people and that they have now got some help in re-homing these puppies. Paul has tried to contact them without success.

Sad to see that the response from other quarters has been less than helpful. In the end Boerboels or not these are dogs who need homes and owners who need help in homing their litter. Lets hope that sufficient good homes are found very quickly so that the puppies can settle in before they get too big or have to spend time in kennels. It is so much harder to house train after kennelling and sadly people just aren't so keen to take on older puppies.

[temwani]

Hi Sandra,

Sorry to hear you have had such problems with your dogs. Does your vet now have a vaccine for the Parvo? Paul says that the usual one doesn't work? How scary is that?

We wouldn't cull either and we would only consider putting a puppy to sleep if it was clearly going to have no quality of life and was suffering. I am always relieved when we only have normal sized litters. Although my bitch would love to be a foster mum so we have her on standby in case ... Meanwhile she has been practising with kittens. If I knew how to post them I would show you the pictures cos it was dead cute watching her washing her kittens.

Geri

[sandaharr]

We have been in talks with a couple of drug companies about a special vaccine to be given at 3-4 weeks.The vet has been wonderful after the initial apathy with Bronson,when I then flipped my lid and he saw how serious I was.He pulled out all the stops making home visits etc and grew very attached to the one that seemed to have the virus for a longer length of time.Yes,it is scary about the normal vaccine as this new strain also affected dogs that were older and vaccinated (killed 2 of them,not mine but another owners who had taken 2 puppies ),what the hell chance have you got.I have to see vet and rep from drug company next week,will let you all know the results.

[temwani]

Sandra,

Were your puppies vaccinated at 6 weeks? Presumably the puppies who went to new owners were older. Which vaccine does your vet use? Fortunately there hasn't been much parvo around in this area but it worries me that these viruses are becoming immune to the vaccines. Is this due to the weather being too warm? The forecast for a real cold snap is good. Working with kids there are undoubtedly more bugs going round than usual and some good cold weather should kill some of them off. Which drug company are you meeting?

Geri

[sandaharr]

Both sets of pups got the new strain of parvo,Razzy's pups were vacc. at 6 weeks (after a fight,because they still have their mothers immunity,allegedly,at that age) but he wouldn't do Prizeys as he felt they were too small.All Razzy's pups that left before the pups were 9weeks did not get it,so we could actually narrow down the time that we got the virus to a couple of days as the incubation period is 5-7 days.The vet received a letter stating that Britain is having an alarming upsurge in this new strain and that all cases should be reported.Fort dodge were the ones doing the testing and it is through them that we have been in touch with the drug company.Vaccine is Nobivac DHPPI and Lepto 1 at 6-8weeks.The vet said the weather,particularly the heavy,heavy rain we had had(3 weeks of) didn't help as it washes the virus everywhere.

[temwani]

Those are the vaccines we use and we have always had them vaccinated at 6 weeks. Mind you the puppies have always been huge so that might be why our vet has had no hesitation. We put their large weights down to the James Wellbeloved puppy food - it might be expensive but the puppies do really well on it and have solid stools as soon as they start eating it.

Is there any disinfectant that will protect against this strain? We need to be ready for Toska's puppies? Paul is intending to have disinfectant baths like with foot and mouth precautions. It might not make any difference but at least we can feel that we have done everything we could.

[sandaharr]

We are using Virkon S at double strength,all over lawn,everything in sight has been sprayed twice over and even the puppies have been washed in it(not at double strength obviously) ,all bedding has been done in it too and beds,you name it it has been Virkoned!
The vet says strong bleach is also just as good for killing the virus but I feel that causes an allergic reaction on the pups.
We are on our 3rd 10kg tub of Virkon,it's defo not cheap and we do what you are doing,a footbath,but really it won't make any difference as it can be carried on anything,tyres,trousers,hands,hair,at least it is not airborne.!!
I look like Buck Rodgers with my backpack on!! ;D

[temwani]

Hi Sandra,

I bet the backpack is more fetching than on Paul. He looks like a ghost buster!

We will be vey careful about letting people see the pups before their vaccs.

Geri

[bulieboerboels]

Been in contact with Roche in Ireland.The females BVA hipscore was indeed 60 so not so good although there was no mention of DJD.Matters are in hand to find good homes for the puppies and home visits will be carried out on prospective owners.All checks possible will be made to ensure that the puppies are homed with responsible,caring and loving homes so all credit to them for making such an effort for unregistered pups.It would be nice to see some breeders making as much effort to do the same.Regards Paul.

[bulieboerboels]

Hi Sandra the male has a score of 0/0 elbows and 18 hips the female has a score of 0/0 elbows and 60 hips.No mention of HD or ED.Regards Paul.

[sandaharr]

Hi Paul,have spoken to Rochelle personally too and she does seem a very caring owner with the pups best interest at heart.I was saddened to learn that the girls hips were a 60 with such good elbows too,shame.Great score for the male too.

[temwani]

Hi Sandra,

Her emails have certainly only expressed concern for finding good homes not money at all.
Let's hope they all get sorted out and this story has a happy ending.

Geri

[bulieboerboels]

I am sure she will keep us informed as to the rehoming of the puppies.A very dog loving person by the sounds of it.Regards Paul.