Differences in Culture

[buliebuse]

Hi Guys
Not BB related - but animal related none the less.
I used to live in Latvia - not Riga the capital, but way out in the 'sticks'.
I had a semi-ferrel cat who gave birth - just to one kitten & was struggling.Rushed straight round to the 'vet'(Basically someones basement)with her.She needed a ceasarian said the vet - ok I said what time shall I pick her up. Oh no said the vet I need you here to assist!Got on with the operation - 3 more kittens transpired which the vet tried to throw straight into the bin. This was not done out of malice - just the normal for them as they are a very poor nation etc & have very little regard for life - whether animal or human.
I lost count of the amount of times I & my children had to step over dead bodies in the street. They only get 'collected' once a week by the street cleaner.
In another instance my mongrel dog was purposely run over & severely hurt.Went back to the same vets - they have no X-ray facilities, so was told to go to the 'peoples' hospital with him.Imagine waiting for an X-ray by the side of small children ,OAPs all waiting as well with your dog!
I think what I am trying to say is that we should all be thankful for what we have no matter how 'bad' it seems sometimes
Ju

[mayahund]

Hi Ju!
I also lived in odd places, mainly Greece in the 80 ies and Latin America and i do recognize what your saying! Last time in Argentina I would find pedigree dogs thrown out in the streets 'cause the owners couldn't afford to feed them anymore. It breaks my heart to see it but at the same time I realize I can't take all the abandoned dogs home.

It's tricky living in countries like that and it makes me very grateful for living in a country were I still can afford to feed my dogs and give them the medical treatment they might need or at least being able to put them to sleep when I can't keep them anymore. In some places I've been the people couldn't even afford a bullet to the head of the dog.

I also noticed another difference, in Athens, Greece, people will let their dogs out in the morning when they go to work and the dogs will roam freely, often in packs until early evening when they go home to their owners. They will cross 6 lane streets to get to the beach and God knows what else and there's hardly never any disturbances or fights in the packs. Here we can't go to the dog club without meeting people saying "Ohh, stay a way, my dog is scared/aggressive" etc. Are we interfering too much with how the dog should interact? Or are the Athenians just reckless?
Ewa

[buliebuse]

Hi Ewa
Unfortunately we are living in a very 'PC' world when it comes to certain countries in the EU.
Politics gone mad!
Yes I do think 'dog owners' interfere too much.In the different fields we walk with Buse when coming across a dog owner we've not seen before - the knee-jerk reaction is that they put their dog straight back on the lead.One of us then goes over & says take the lead off (To the horror of the owner)- neither dog is in their own territory so there is never a problem. But if one dog is 'tethered' that is when problems seem to occur.
Ju

[temwani]

Hi Ju,

I agree about the dogs on lead syndrome and usually a tight lead. It always makes the dogs edgy.

However I'm sorry to say that in the UK there are still thousands of dogs that need new homes and sadly too many are neglected at best and abused by intention by some.

Dog wardens generally work really hard trying to educate and help people to take proper care of their dogs and stop dogs wandering loose where they get hurt or end up causing an accident where people get hurt.

Poverty isn' the problem in the UK it is lack of knowledge and that is what causes most of the dog behaviour problems. Sadly in many homes dogs are not treated as dogs. Yes, I know I spoil my two little dogs but they are small and in no danger of taking over the household. I think our real issue over here is that most people treat their dog as a surrogate spoilt child and that's where all the behaviour problems come from.

We like it when people bring their children with them to see the dogs - if their children are ill behaved - we won't sell them a puppy. This may sound harsh but if they can't train their kids - they can't train a puppy.

This lack of training is why the dog homes over here are full of 12 to 18 month old dogs - mainly largish male dogs!

Geri

[mayahund]

I'm not sure I entirely see that people keeping their dogs on a leash is a problem. I have quite a few friends in different ages that are very scared of dogs (any size) and they would fret at the sight of a bb off leash however well behaved and in control.

I do agree that a dog off leash will play/interact better than a dog on leash, this due to the dog having extra "power" due to it's owner hanging in the other end giving it support (however involuntary!!)

Over here - in towns - you'll find public spaces (fenced) were dogs can roam freely. Still I wouldn't let my dogs in there with just anything and everything.

Since I changed breed I don't have this problem anymore ;D but when I had spaniels everybody would take one look at my dogs and say "Ohhh, lovely dogs let them play together" - Yeah - sure!! One of my females were extremely dominant (and spoiled rotten) and would not allow anybody close to her the first 25 meetings or so. So I would seldom let her off leash with unknown dogs. Still people would leave their dogs unleashed next to mine and stand there with open mouths when Nikki told them off, even though I warned them. "Oh, but a cute dog like that??" She was never anything out of the movie "The Lady and the tramp

With my bb's it's the opposite! Everybody else go running off in the opposite direction with their dogs after one glance at Chili (The 60 kg dog that makes "play bow invitations and barks real friendly) ;D

I can see your point in looking at peoples children when seeing if they will be any good at raising a pup
Ewa

[buliebuse]

Hi-ya again Ewa
Think I've been misconstrued again!
About dogs on lead , my point was meant to be that it really annoys me when in open fields/farmland another dog owner tackles their dog to put it on a lead when seeing another dog - no matter what breed.
If they don't want their dog to interact/be social - would suggest they stick to lead walking on the street.
We purposely walk Buse @ twice a week past an infants/junior school when the children are coming out. At first we got alot of comments shouted to us etc - but a positive came out of it in that they are all used to it now & have 'educated' alot of the children that it is not ok to just go up to what they think is a 'cute' looking dog & fling their arms around it.
One particular Mum who got set upon by 2 GSDs when she was very young asked if she could come & visit with her 2 small children as she was very aware that she had passed on that fear to her children. No problem - the kids & Buse interacted brilliantly - sadly the Mum was still fearful & who could blame her.

Geri - No I don't think that sounds harsh as regards behavior of children. Good Lord if you have an out of control child , who you can easily communicate with by word of mouth etc what chance do you have at controlling a dog!
I also agree that people do not always treat their dogs as dogs.
How tempting is it with an 8 week old puppy to snuggle it up on your lap etc or give into it when they are whining the first few nights in their new environment? VERY.
Spare the rod - spoil the child so to speak
Ju

[sandaharr]

About dogs on leads.We were walking 2 akitas years ago in the local country park,we saw a guy coming and put our 2 back on lead,he didn't bother putting his 2 labs on.As we got closer we asked him to put his dogs on lead as they ran at our 2 and our 2 didn't want to play.He gave us the usual 'no, they're fine,they just want to play' patter when his bitch jumped on our young Akita bitch,that was it,pandemonium.Anyway he said we were to blame,although we had our dogs on the lead and his bitch attacked our youngster,so he proceeded to try and hit our dogs with his stick,I'm afraid wee Harry was having none of it and told him in no uncertain terms who would be getting hit with the stick if he didn't back off!
Anyway,my point is....if he had put his dogs on the lead when requested there wouldn't have been a problem!

[buliebuse]

Not knowing anything about the Akita breed (apart from they're more hardy than a BB)
What would have been the outcome if you hadn't put them on leads ?
Ju

[sandaharr]

The male Akita would have immediately run up and started going for the dog.He was our first Akita and was a rescue one,never been socialised etc.
The socialisation apart they are a very dominant breed,we find them more dominant than the BB and much harder to train to recall,the teenage years are a bit of a nightmare,a fact we ALWAYS warn new owners about.

[temwani]

Hi Sandra,

You should have reported him and sued he would have been held liable because his dog was off lead. This is one aspect of our law that I agree with. In open spaces if two dogs are off leash - both owners are jointly responsible for any resulting fight.

Geri

[temwani]

Hi Ju,

I agree with you about open spaces. Next to my house is a lake we walk round and all the dogs who go there are friendly and all the people like dogs - except in the middle of the summer when some normally sofa bound people decide they will go for a walk. How come they are always stupid enough to wear white trousers? It makes me want to put up signs saying - please walk here if you like to meet dogs but if you are going to scream and run away or get upset by a wet tail brushing past - go walk somewhere clean and dry!!!

I do understand when people are frightened by the sight of huge BBs walking towards them. We always make ours sit and then encourage people to say hello safely.

Geri

[buliebuse]

Just in case the writing is not readable - it says :
In Lianshou, stalls offering man's best friend as a tasty snack line the roads, & hungrey punters can't wait to snap up the gastronomic delight that is a dog pancake.

It's obviously not a BB pancake !

[temwani]

Ju,

That is utterly disgusting and an image I definately didn't need to see.

These sort of practices belong in the dark ages along with cannibalism.

Appalled

Geri

[mayahund]

Don't know if this is the right forum to confess to very old sins but I once eaten dog. I didn't know when I ate it what it was and really, it didn't taste bad. But the next day when I came down to the meat market and all I saw was skinned dogs - I realized what I've eaten! Do I need to say that it took me quite a while to stop throwing up?!
Ewa

[temwani]

Hi Ewa,

I would also throw up! I never eat anything without knowing what it is, this dates back to my mother feeding me rabbit. It may be irrational but whilst I happily eat cows, sheep and pigs and birds, all other mammals are definately not for eating.

Geri

[mayahund]

//"I happily eat cows, sheep and pigs and birds"//
Well Geri Thats were we differ - Idon't eat cow, pigs and sheep - Just everything else and I never ask before I eat what I am being served - I 'm thought that's rude!

So I've eaten some strang things in my life - but I'm still alive and kicking
Ewa

[buliebuse]

Gee whiz Geri
You'd have had to starve in Latvia ;D
Don't get me wrong of course I also think it is appalling - but rose coloured spectacles don't always work.
Ju

[temwani]

Ewa,

We have a disgusting programme on TV here where they put some celebrities in the jungle and restrict their food and then get them to do challenges to earn meals.

The worst part is eating a series of jungle fodder - this series they had a man eat a kangeroos bottom and a crocodile's willy.

Everyone except one sensibly said no.
Regrettably the other ate them watched by many people. UCK Uck uck!!!!

Geri

[sandaharr]

Believe me,if I was starving I would eat anything,even dog

[buliebuse]

Hi Geri
Did you see the BBC3 documentary about 'road-kill' that was on last night?
Was watching it & thought of you. Basically this chap who is a 'vegetarian' will only eat fresh animals that have been killed accidentally by vehicles.
His repertoire consisted of rabbits, badgers,squirrel etc.
He had a mixed response when he introduced it into a small village bistro on their menu!
Ju

[buliebuse]

Sorry Geri
Have just re-read my last but one post to you in this subject - it comes across as rude,it is not intended to be so!
I just get very annoyed sometimes at the hardships others in the world have to endure.
When we were first in Latvia during the early 90's & when they were just getting Independence, there was no food & no petrol to be able to go into Riga (About a 2 hour drive away from us)on the off-chance there might be food there.
It was a particularly harsh winter @ -30c, no mushrooms or berries to forage from the forest etc & the wolves were slowly encroaching into villages also in search of food.
Belarus (Literally translated as 'White Russia') could not bury their dead as the ground was too hard.A few 'entrepreneurs' then decided to export this meat to Latvia.
Believe me when all you have been able to feed your children on was pickled gherkins & peas, I'm very ashamed to say it made a welcome change.
Sometimes its just called survival
Ju

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

buliebuse said:

Sorry Geri

Belarus (Literally translated as 'White Russia') could not bury their dead as the ground was too hard.A few 'entrepreneurs' then decided to export this meat to Latvia.
Believe me when all you have been able to feed your children on was pickled gherkins & peas, I'm very ashamed to say it made a welcome change.
Sometimes its just called survival
Ju

I think to be honest, I would also be tempted if the conditions demanded it, however, it would only happen if the other alternative is death.

Shaun

[buliebuse]

Hi Shaun
Trust me it was!
Didn't have a gun either to get a 'pesky' wolf!
Ju

[temwani]

Hi Ju and Shaun,

Not ever having been close to death through lack of food I don't know what I would do then but meanwhile I will stick to eating just the meat that I percieve as food. I know this is irrational and that sheep and cows and pigs are also dead cute but that's how I feel.

Geri

PS Ju wasn't worried by your last post - more upset by the picture - please don't post any more unless you can get Shaun to set them up with a warning so that those who want to can click to see.

[mayahund]

OT - But related!
Why on the subject of strange diets; In order to get my energy levels up a bit I mix a drink consisting of the juice from one orange, one lime, same amount of water as the juice amounts too and spirulina algae.

I did so just a while ago and put it on my desk. Next to the desk is the couch, were Chili is laying snoring her little head off - well I went outside for a smoke and when I came back in Chili was sitting up in the couch, with a very guilty expression on her face, licking her mouth.........

It took me a minute to realize what she's done....she'd drunk half of the glass of juice !!!!!

That dog will put her head into everything and anything and she's not even entered in one of these TV- survival shows
Ewa

[temwani]

Ewa,

If I didn't know better I would have thought Tem was one of Sandra's cos her favourite trick was knicking the empty wine bottles and sucking the dregs out. I've known dogs who liked beer but not red wine!

Geri

[mayahund]

Geri;
Do you mean to tell me that Paul hasn't told you how he fought an uneven battle with Chili over his beercans??

Chili loves beer! Don't know about redwine though!
Ewa

[abel]

Glad to find we´re talking proper food & booz again ...
Albert.

[buliebuse]

Hi guys
Geri - Sandra wouldn't even leave a dreg in the bottle! ;D
Ewa - Buse used to pinch Clives beer cans, which was very funny to see. But now as he has had to give up smoking & drinking she isn't so fond of the non-alcohlic cans !
Ju
If we're not careful we'll have to get a BB AA site !

[sandaharr]

You guys have got me sounding like a real alky,as if I drink all the time......hic,hic,wheres that next bottle!!