Dog food analysis

[mayahund]

Found this link; www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/
at Scandinavian forum for Barf-feeding. Thought some of you might find it interesting to see what your food is rated as.

Ewa

[buliebuse]

Hi Ewa
Just come off the site & was interested in that some of the top rated had protein content of over 40?
Am I just being dumb/old-fashioned or mis-informed about how much protein should be in a BBs diet?
Confusednow.com
Ju

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

buliebuse said:

Hi Ewa
Am I just being dumb/old-fashioned or mis-informed about how much protein should be in a BBs diet?
Confusednow.com
Ju

Hello Ju, I think that while it is prudent to be sparing with the amount of protein in the first year, you also have to look at things with another perspective when the growing surge is over.

With any dog (and even cat) protein amounts have to be monitored, too much and you will destroy the kidneys, too little and there is a chance that the animal will not get enough essential amino acids (amino acids that the animal cannot produce itself but are needed to function properly).

If you went into dog food manufacturing, for economics sake, you would choose a mixture of heamoglobin (a protein derived from blood) another protein scource (usually meat (euthanised pets or half rotten, maggot infested farm animals that die by themselves) or poultry bi-products (beaks/feet etc)), rape seed oil (for cheap fat content) and wheat (cheap carbohydrate content). You would mix these so that the end product would be about 20% protein, 6% fat (the lower the fat %, the longer the food will keep in the shops), 10% water (you get it nearly free and you charge full price for it), 7% ash (also almost free and contains minerals). The remainder would be wheat or another cheap type of corn.
This mixture would taste too disgusting for the dog, so the food would have to be ultra heated and pressurised (extruded) This would remove most of the taste and destroy all of the vitamins, it would also kill all bacteria (needed by the dog). Then you would add flavouring and add vitamins.
Unfortunately the extrusion process does not destroy the chemicals used to euthanise the pets, so that will still be in the final product, but hey, even though these chemicals are known to be cancer promoting, there is no legislation that demands their removal.

If you were a pet food manufacturer that wanted a good quality product, you would have meat as the prime ingredient, why? Dogs are not designed to eat wheat, if you put it in a product, it is more or less just a filler and it more or less just comes out of the other end of the dog. It makes the faeces soft, even runny and this does not let the dog empty its anal glands naturally, it needs a hard faeces for that. Wheat is known to cause allergies in dogs.
Wheat costs about 10 pence for a kilo, in a finished food like Hill´s the kilo price is about £4 a kilo, there is more than 50% wheat in Hill´s. They are earning about £3.90 on a kilo of wheat, that is a fantastic mark up of 3900 % and that money is not doing your dog much good at all.
I would never use bi products, although they are made from proteins, they are often not digestable.
I would also use human quality meats, that way I could ensure that there are no rest chemicals.
Personally I would prefer to buy a high protein diet, and add my own cereals (I would use oats as this gives a harder faeces).

Have a good look at the ingredients of your dog food.
It should be
protein (at least 25 %)
fat (at least 10%)
It should contain meat as the first ingredient.

Any comments? Your dog has to live it´s life on the nutrients you give it, ever wondered about the high amount of cancers in dogs?

Shaun

[buliebuse]

Hi Shaun
Without naming the brand have just swapped Buse over to this:
Protein 25%
Oil 15%
Fibre 2.5%
Ash 7%
Moisture 8%
With Omega Vits A,D & E , Calcium, Phosporus etc in small deniminations.
Wanted something with a higher oil content as when brushed at the moment her coat is quite dandruffy.
I am open to suggestions .
Am I getting it wrong or supplymented with fresh white meat & marrow bone does this do the job ?
Ju

[mayahund]

Just got back from chili's swimming lessons, had an interesting talk to the vet that runs the rehab about hd and food. The vet (she) breeds bearded collies and cao de something...(forgot) anyway, she's just had her pups x-rayed - traditional style for HD and they all came out with A-hips (which is really good by FCI-standard)
The thing with this is, the mum had D-hips and the dad has B , boardering on C. Why do a mating like this then? Well she's a true believer that the genetics in HD is a very small portion and shes trying to prove it.

So what she's done is that first off all she choose a dog food with low energy level - she wasn't all that bothered about protein and fats as long as the all over energy level was low. Then she's been swimming the pups since they were 4 ½ weeks old.

Now from all I read and so on I'm an avid believer in the fact that there's a big genetic part to HD. I'm in no way inclined to believe otherwise because 4 (or so) pups came out different depending on food and swimming but I do think she has a valid point in how important it is to have a thorough look at what our dogs eat and how we exercise them.

I will follow the progress of these pups with great interest.
Ewa

[proudfootknls]

Hi Ewa.

Silly question but what do you mean by energy level... I have never heard of this terminology before?

Marcella

[mayahund]

Sorry Marcella!
I think it's me trying to direct translate something Swedish into English ;( Sometimes it works but...sorry!

I will try to explain myself - some (most) dog foods come in variations like for the old dogs, for adults, for puppies, for hardworking dogs etc. The producers seem to think like; the more the dog is supposed to move about the higher the calorie intake it needs. So what i mean is a kibble that would give much energy.

In my opinion this also shows up in higher protein and fat in the food for hard workers and puppies.

Please ask again if I don't make sense and I'll try too look up an appropriate word in the dictionary!
Ewa

[temwani]

Hi Ewa,

I too think exercise and nutrition play a big part in HD. There are many of the cheaper foods in the uk. There are some which literally look like museli and most of what the dog eats comes straight out again completely un-digested. When the food is being properly digested there should be much less volume of waste than is eaten in the first place.

We feed a lower calorie, lower protein food but high quality with the major ingredient as Shaun says being meat. After all dogs are carnivores and in the wild the bulk of their diet would be meat.

Many behaviour problems can be the result of feeding too high protein combined with insufficient exercise/stimulation. When I was doing lots of re-homing work with collies the first question we would ask owners is what are you feeding? This would be true of any high drive dog - feeding too much is a kin to feeding kids too many additives or sugar.

Geri

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

buliebuse said:

Protein 25%
Oil 15%
Fibre 2.5%
I am open to suggestions .
Am I getting it wrong or supplymented with fresh white meat & marrow bone does this do the job ?
Ju

Hello Ju, the make up of you chosen food looks ok, every dog is different and needs to be fed differently, if Buse is anything like most of the line she comes from, she can be very active. It is best to keep looking at her condition and judgeing every day whether she is getting enough or too much.
We try to keep things in proportion when feeding. What would a dog find/catch in the wild? Mostly bone and muscle. Too much muscle and not enough bone will give a high Phosphour/ calcium ratio and the dog will get bad kidneys, growing pains and might get gout, too much bone (the faeces will be white) the dog will get a high calcium to Phosphour ratio, this is known to promote HD and certain forms of ED.
That is why we give whole chickens or whole piglets.

Shaun

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

Hi Ju, what is the protein source in the food you have chosen for Buse? In order to determine if it is a good doog food you will need to know all the ingredients.
Anne

[proudfootknls]

Hi Ewa,

That makes complete sense when it is put like that....
We have recently been going through a whole testing dog food process again and finally found a really good combination of Canidae (all life stages) and raw... this has worked wonderfully so far, no skin irritations showing up, and everyone loves this food, even my picky eaters!
Here's keeping my fingers crossed

Marcella

p.s. thanks again for explanation ! ;D

[buliebuse]

Hi Shaun & Anna
The protein source is fresh salmon, also has a mix ratio of Omega 3&6 to 'promote' better skin.Presume should notice a difference within a month.
Unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it Buse is not that active around the home - very laid back, normally infront of the fire!We still limit her exercise to 2 x 20 minute walks a day as shes not yet 2 etc.We also have never allowed her on furniture or up stairs/steps.
Am looking forward to tomorrow as we have been promised snow - shall be able to take her sledging! :)It will also be her first experience of snow.
Ju

[marty43]

hi there my BB is nearly 16 months now and for about 4 months we have had problems with acne on his chin.we got tablets from the vet that cleared it up,but slowly they returned, but not as bad before.we changed his food onto a lower protein diet to see if this helped. It has not got worse, but i recently found out that his grandfather also had the same problems that my BB HAS. does anyone have advice?

[bakkies]

Hi Marty, A vet once tolled me that dogs can actually get puperty acne. Maybe you shoul make an allergy test, a lot of dogs are allergic to some kind of food or even dust in their environment

[buliebuse]

Hi Marcella
Excuse my ignorance but where are you based.
I have read alot about Canidae - but didn't think you could get it in the UK?
Ju

[buliebuse]

Hi Martine
Did you try with changing washing powder?
How are all the pooches - believe you're helping H out.
Have told Sandra off re her website - it must have taken her ages to find the most unflattering picture of you
Ju

[proudfootknls]

Hi Ju,

We live in Ontario Canada, and as it was... it up until recently was extremely difficult to find a distributor who sold Canidae in my area.
To switch subjects just a little bit... I have an issue that I am hoping someone can possibly shed some light on for me.
We recently took one of our puppies back to the vet yet again, for another (3rd one in less than three months) terrible ear infection. After ruling out ear mites, swimming issues, yeast problems we have begun to think food allergies. The problem is that she is eating an extremely good food that has no fillers or garbage in it from what I understand. The vet has recommended that she be put on a "single source" protein diet, and he wants to push the food that they sell at their office (which I am not fond of to begin with) ... my initial response to him was can I not just feed her a single source 'raw' diet? But being a vet he will not recommend raw feeding, he would rather me cook it first (again what sense does that make?) but will only tell me to give her something that she has never eaten before...
Has anyone ever fed a single source raw diet before?

Thanks in advance
Marcella

[marty43]

hi ya, sandra web site is good apart from that not very nice photo of me. not tryied changing the soap powder yet.think im best taking him to the vet for some tests,he had a few ear infections to, plus keeps eating his paws all the time.Does anyone have any recommendations on a good low protien dry food for the BB puppy I have from sandra she is nearly four months old.

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

Its incredible just how many vets have just the right dog food that their customers need Couldn´t be anything to do with the 40% profit they get for selling it of course.
Single protein scource is probably not entirely possible in a kibble as all corn sorts also have protein in them. Personally I would opt for the barf diet. You could try for 14 days with raw chicken and see if there are any results, we feed loads of raw chicken and have no skin or ear problems.
Keep us informed.

Shaun

[marty43]

hi shaun , I also give him raw chicken backs which he loves.we thought that might have been making him worse, but from what you are saying your dogs are fine.when would you recommend giving my other 4 month old BB Chicken.

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

buliebuse said:

Hi Shaun & Anna
The protein source is fresh salmon, also has a mix ratio of Omega 3&6 to 'promote' better skin.Presume should notice a difference within a month.
Ju

We do not use fish, we have done but we think it is smelly and that is not very practical in the summer. As for fats, we use rape seed oil or sunflower seed oil (100mL/day per dog) and we do not see any skin problems.

Looking forward to hearing about her progress.

Regards
Anne and Shaun

[mayahund]

Marcella!
I've spent almost 2 years on a Scandinavian mess.board about Barf and there's quite a few people that's been giving their puppies raw food, there's even breeders that only give their dogs and puppies raw food from when they could start to be weened.

They've all had the same opinion from the vet as you had. The one conclusion I draw from hanging on that board is that a lot of health problems will disappear or become better with barf. Especially allergies. BUT - I also learned that its not just to "chuck" the dog some raw meat and bones every now and then. It's a science in finding out what extra vitamins and minerals and oils they might need. People over here even have their water checked for vit/min content! I think that is the main reason I still haven't gone Barf full out, and also the question of me not being able to room yet another fridge and freezer just for the dog But I'm looking for a new house so...

As for the problems your dog has - has the vet checked the dogs thyroid levels? It's easily done with a blood sample and several of the symptoms you describe were the same on Mubi when we found out she had low thyroid levels.

I'm adding some books that the Barf list recomends us to read - and yes they are in english

Dr Ian Billinghurst – Give your Dog a Bone.
Dr Ian Billinghurst (vet.) - Grow Your Pups With Bones.
JWendell O. Belfield (vet.) – How to have a Healthier Dog.
Pat Lazarus (med.journalist) – Keep Your Dog Healthy the Natural Way.
John M. Simon (vet) – Anti-Aging for Dogs.
Kymythy R. Schultze (dietist) - Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats, The Ultimate Diet.
Richard H. Pitcairn (vet.med.dr) - Natural Health for Dogs and Cats.
Tom Lonsdale (Veterinär) Raw Meaty Bones Promote Health

Ewa

[mayahund]

NO fish?
If you guys could see Mubi when she smells the raw fish you would all start giving your dogs raw fish! She LOVES it. Lucky Mubi, got to live with a conformed non meat eater

Helena brought some chunks of dried fish for the girls this weekend and Chili enjoys it but Mubi will walk through fire to get it
Ewa

[mayahund]

Martine;
Chili also has some doggy acne but I've chosen to totally ignore it. It doesn't bother her so why interfere? They pop up, dry in and disappear.

I also heard somebody saying if your currently feeding in plastic bowls you could try changing them to stainless steal or the other way around.

Ewa

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

mayahund said:

NO fish?
If you guys could see Mubi when she smells the raw fish you would all start giving your dogs raw fish! She LOVES it. Lucky Mubi, got to live with a conformed non meat eater

Helena brought some chunks of dried fish for the girls this weekend and Chili enjoys it but Mubi will walk through fire to get it
Ewa

Don't worry, they get fresh fish now and then, but we do not use dog food based on fish. We used to and it did not smell very nice.
Anne

[temwani]

Hi Marty,

We feed James Wellbeloved - you can get chicken and rice or turkey and rice or lamb and rice or fish and rice It is hypo-allengenic with no artificial additives. The adult food is suitable for puppies from weaning. This food is quite expensive but we swear by the puppy food for the first 4/5 weeks after weaning and for any dogs with health problems. It also contains a high level of vitamins.

Our adult dogs are fed on Large breed Iams chicken and rice - we buy in bulk via the breeders club which is much cheaper than any shop and is delivered to the door.

I have fed a dog who had skin problems on a diet of white fish - chicken and boiled whole grain rice - but it works out expensive and cooking for the dog isn't always convenient.

Anyway - hope you find a solution. Everyone has their own method and in the end it will be only trial and error until you find something that works.

Geri

[proudfootknls]

Hi Shaun,

I actually tried not to giggle out loud too much when he suggested that I buy the single protein dog food from his office. He and I have a fairly good relationship... (he better... I pay most of his mortgage ) and when I giggled and told him that I was going to look into a raw diet when I got home... he completely understand's... doesn't necessarily agree with me but respects my judgements enough with my dogs... I have been known to be right instinctively on more than one occasion!
So my next step is to contact my raw food guy

I will let you know how she does within the next few months!

Marcella

[proudfootknls]

Hi Ewa,

Thanks for the book titles... I will look them up at the library.
As for the barf or raw diet... I have contacted my raw food guy and asked him to give me some product.. we just actually found this gentleman who premakes and prepackages all sorts of different food items... check this link out.. he and his product's are incredible!
www.paws-itivelyrawfoods.com

Thanks again
Marcella ;D

[buliebuse]

Hi Anne
I so know what you mean about the smell !!!!
I come down stairs after its been soaking for a while & even my 12 yr old puts a peg on her nose & covers it with a plate.
Least we only have the 1 food bowl though.
Ju

[buliebuse]

Hi Marcella
Do you not have good old-fashioned butchers over there?
We get loads free from them that they can't sell in time etc or off-cuts that no-one wants to buy & of course marrow-bone. The latter is strictly limited to once a week & for a couple of hours , as of course Shaun quite rightly said 'stools' go white.
Ju