EBBASA vs SABT

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

Both organisations use the same standard to judge by, the exception is that EBBASA do not accept piebalds as breeding dogs.

SABT is the oldest and biggest organisation, EBBASA is nothing near the size of SABT but, size is not everything. For those breeders who are looking for a breed organisation that demands health standards, EBBASA is the registry to choose.

SABT allow breeders to breed on any dog with any degree of hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, eye entropion/ectropion and vaginal hyperplasia/prolapse.

Anyone with a registered female can be a SABT breeder.

To be an EBBASA breeder you need to have a kennel inspection and show that all your breeding stock has veterinary papers to prove that the breeding dogs do not have eye entropion/ectropion, the HD must be under 2:2 and there is a scoring system that encourages breeders to breed on the best hips. Skin problems are not allowed, ED is not allowed, Vaginal hyperplasia/prolapse is not allowed. There is also a height limit on the males, SABT have no height limit on the males.

The president of the EBBASA is a European that lives in South Africa, the leadership of the SABT is solely made up of South Africans, even the USA and European representatives are South Africans.

Each registry travels and appraises dog in the same way, there may be a tendency to give a slightly higher score with EBBASA, though this is difficult to prove one way or another.

The UKBC is a SABT affiliated club, EBBASA have no affiliated clubs.

Regards
Anne and Shaun


Can anyone else think of any other differences?

[buliebuse]

Thanks for that info Shaun
Would that mean that EBBASA appraisers would not be at all biased then ?
Ju

[jannikbb]

what is the height limit for a male and for a female under EBBASA. as you may know yogi is rather on the large size, jan

[jannikbb]

ps what does karma mean, under posts

[buliebuse]

Hi Jan
Were you at the SABT appraisals this year?
My husband seems to recall talking to you with Buse when you were talking to 2 other chaps ?
Sorry no pics of them on UKBC site re appraisals !
Ju

I presumed Karma to mean if you're chilled or not.

[jannikbb]

hi ju, yes i was there with one of my girls winnie, was your husband with the two 'russian'? guys with the two bitches, i talked to so many people that day, admiring all the dogs, were you there, what did you think of the day. i was pleased that the appraiser liked winnie, said he'd like to kidnap her, but then disappointed he only gave her 81.6%, i really wanted her to get over 82%, i know she's still very young (11 months at appraisal day), but previous appraisers have scored a lot higher than he, jan

[buliebuse]

Hi Jan
Yes he thought they were Greek though !
I was there & I actually took Buse into the ring - she was the little monkey who slipped her collar. As Clive was stood outside of the ring she just wanted to run over & make sure he was ok - as whenever we take her for walks we always split up for @ 10 mins so she runs back & forth (throwing a ball - you get the look , you threw it you go fetch it I'm not a B retriever!)
Where abouts in the uk are you ?
Ju

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

buliebuse said:

Would that mean that EBBASA appraisers would not be at all biased then ?
Ju

I think that the biased/unbiased appraiser is an individual thing, we have only met one EBBASA appraiser, mr Piet Sprinkhuisen. He did not give the impression about being biased at all. He was totally uninterested in who the breeder was, nobody tried to tell him who the breeder of the dogs he was appraising was either.

I heard that someone had written your breeder´s kennel name on the scoring papers so that the appraiser knew who the breeder was Funny thing to do, all of the registries make sure that the appraisers do not give higher marks to their own dogs, and one would hope that the breeder name had no interest at all to the appraiser.

Shaun

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

jannikbb said:

ps what does karma mean, under posts

I have absolutely no idea what Karma means in this forum.

[buliebuse]

Hi Shaun
Yep someone had written Bulie above her name on the score sheet - don't know why , but my understanding of appraisals from Paul was that as you say Breeders do not come into it - the dog should be marked on their own merit irrespective of where they've come from.

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

buliebuse said:

Hi Shaun
Yep someone had written Bulie above her name on the score sheet - don't know why .

We can only hope that there is nothing fishy about this

[buliebuse]

I'd like to think that as she's such a stunning dog - they were just jealous !

[jannikbb]

hi ju, i'm in hertfordshire, small village called chipperfield, whereabouts are you.
I notice you've got a 1 for karma? jan

[jannikbb]

not sure if i saw you, do remember a dog slipping the leash though, may have been you? jan
good idea about appraisal photos, i'll dig one of mine out and get nikola to send it for me, jan

[buliebuse]

Jan
Great thanks - I just thought it would be nice to put faces to not only dogs but owners as well (Hoping my son can cut & paste Paris Hilton onto mine) knowing my luck he'll put Nora Batty in there.
I live in the unfortunately reknown 'Fred West' City - Gloucester.
But its good we have loads of walkways & nature reserves around etc. Buse only chases birds so it was funny when we had quite abit of flooding the other month. Buse launched herself off the side of a track to catch a bird - but it wasn't solid it was water ! If I'd had a camera on me the picture would be priceless of her expression.
If ever in the area you'll have to visit - but please not with all the menagerie !
Ju

[mayahund]

I was at the Ebbasa -appraisal held at Anashas in june and one thing that struck me when we reached the "final" - 4 best felamels and 4 best males - I could acualy see a clear reasemblance in all 8 dogs. I blelieve that means there was an "ideal" behind how Piet judged the dogs. With "ideal" I mean breed standard.

I've been to several Sabt-appraisals in Denmark and 1 in Sweden and I never seen that in the "finals".
Ewa

[jannikbb]

buliebuse said:

Jan
Great thanks - I just thought it would be nice to put faces to not only dogs but owners as well (Hoping my son can cut & paste Paris Hilton onto mine) knowing my luck he'll put Nora Batty in there.
I live in the unfortunately reknown 'Fred West' City - Gloucester.
But its good we have loads of walkways & nature reserves around etc. Buse only chases birds so it was funny when we had quite abit of flooding the other month. Buse launched herself off the side of a track to catch a bird - but it wasn't solid it was water ! If I'd had a camera on me the picture would be priceless of her expression.
If ever in the area you'll have to visit - but please not with all the menagerie !
Ju

hi ju, buse sounds a bit like my tigs, she loves watching birds/butterflies/flies etc, would ignore a rabbit running in the field while the others would be chasing it, she has no prey drive whatsoever, head in the clouds, jan
Think i'll have michelle pfeifer's head on me jan

[jannikbb]

buliebuse said:

Jan
Great thanks - I just thought it would be nice to put faces to not only dogs but owners as well (Hoping my son can cut & paste Paris Hilton onto mine) knowing my luck he'll put Nora Batty in there.
I live in the unfortunately reknown 'Fred West' City - Gloucester.
But its good we have loads of walkways & nature reserves around etc. Buse only chases birds so it was funny when we had quite abit of flooding the other month. Buse launched herself off the side of a track to catch a bird - but it wasn't solid it was water ! If I'd had a camera on me the picture would be priceless of her expression.
If ever in the area you'll have to visit - but please not with all the menagerie !
Ju

ps not sure if i'll ever be in gloucester but sure would visit if ever i am. and the same if you're ever in the herts area, would love to meet up, jan

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

jannikbb said:

what is the height limit for a male and for a female under EBBASA.

Anne would like to answer this, she is at work now but will come home about 3 O´Clock

Shaun

[buliebuse]

Think i'll have michelle pfeifer's head on me jan[/quote]
I was going to plump for her - but didn't know how to spell it
Ju

[Sandra]

Hi Ewa,yes,I also love to see this and if I'm being really honest,all my dogs here are different types,but this is why we have set up our own breeding program,so we have conformity in our dogs-all to the standard I might add!!

[buliebuse]

Hi Ewa & Sandra
One thing that struck me at the appraisals was that there was quite i diversity in looks between the different breeders dogs.
Ju

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

Ewa I must admit I was VERY impressed with Piet Sprinkhuisen. He is also the first appraiser I have met who took the time to explain the good and bad about every single dog at the appraisal.
We are now breeding on our 3rd and 4th generation of Anasha dogs and we can begin to see a "line" in our breeding. We hope we can continue this over the next 5 generations as well. Then hopefully we should have some really nice and healthy dogs that are all the same type.

Regards
Anne

[mayahund]

I too live with 2 dogs that are each others total opposites when it comes too looks and I love them dearly anyway

But just looking at the variety we have in bb's in Scandinavia I believe there's 2 ways to go, either we skip the breed descriptions that Ebbasa and Sabt supply and see what happens or the organisations should start to accualy judge according to the descriptions and aim towards what they believe is the "ultimate" look in a bb.

Therefore it was impressive to see that Piet accualy had a vision and in order to reached that vision he even took to appraise 2 dogs that didn't meet the standards since he thought it would gain the breed in the future.

I don't really mind us having several looks in the bb but it kind of gets "funny" when your out and about with your dogs and people ask questions and you say, "they're the same breed". To me health and temperament will always come in first.

I am also wondering if anybody knows, is there such a variety in looks in S.A too or is it just overseas?
Ewa

[Shaun Eric Ewing]

Hi Ewa, if you have a look at the BB's we imported from SA you will not be able to find 2 that look the same.
We noticed the same when we went to SA in 2000. A lot of out crossing has been done and the old line that used to be are almost gone.
I too find health and temperament more inportant than looks.
Regards
Anne

[bulieboerboels]

Hi Julie glad to see you made it to the message board.I thought Buse looked really well and you and Clive have to be congratulated on the way you have raised,trained and socialised her.She is a credit to you both.On the subject of appraisals I personally thought that this years appraisal was different from previous ones in as much as the appraisers seemed to want to be closer to the dogs and where ever possible actually touch the dogs.You say about your appraisal sheet having Bulie written on the top I have not known that before but while Taz was being appraised the lady with the appraiser for some reason threw her pen approx 6 feet to land close to Taz.Then she proceeded to very slowly walk then crouch to pick it up while making and maintaining eye contact with Taz.Dont know what it was all about but all Taz did was look her up and down and shrug her shoulders.Has any one had a similar experience?Regards Paul.

[jannikbb]

bulieboerboels said:

Hi Julie glad to see you made it to the message board.I thought Buse looked really well and you and Clive have to be congratulated on the way you have raised,trained and socialised her.She is a credit to you both.On the subject of appraisals I personally thought that this years appraisal was different from previous ones in as much as the appraisers seemed to want to be closer to the dogs and where ever possible actually touch the dogs.You say about your appraisal sheet having Bulie written on the top I have not known that before but while Taz was being appraised the lady with the appraiser for some reason threw her pen approx 6 feet to land close to Taz.Then she proceeded to very slowly walk then crouch to pick it up while making and maintaining eye contact with Taz.Dont know what it was all about but all Taz did was look her up and down and shrug her shoulders.Has any one had a similar experience?Regards Paul.

[jannikbb]

jannikbb said:

bulieboerboels said:

Hi Julie glad to see you made it to the message board.I thought Buse looked really well and you and Clive have to be congratulated on the way you have raised,trained and socialised her.She is a credit to you both.On the subject of appraisals I personally thought that this years appraisal was different from previous ones in as much as the appraisers seemed to want to be closer to the dogs and where ever possible actually touch the dogs.You say about your appraisal sheet having Bulie written on the top I have not known that before but while Taz was being appraised the lady with the appraiser for some reason threw her pen approx 6 feet to land close to Taz.Then she proceeded to very slowly walk then crouch to pick it up while making and maintaining eye contact with Taz.Dont know what it was all about but all Taz did was look her up and down and shrug her shoulders.Has any one had a similar experience?Regards Paul.

we had a similar experience with winnie, if i ever get my pics on the board you will see the lady bending down to winnie, making eye contact and waving her clipboard in her face. winnie just thought she was playing and stuck her nose in the ladys crotch jan

[mayahund]

I have to ask - If the appraiser accualy is trying to do some test on how the bb will react (i.e temperament test) - however clumsily - isn't that a rather good development?

OK - ALL dogs should be submitted to the same test, not just "chosen" ones.

I remember my very first Sabt appraisal, I was there with my first bb and she was extremly nervouse and scared of her own shadow. The appraiser didn't come any closer to her than to feel the skin just above her tail. She still got a rather good 84 point something. Did she deserve it? No way! She was all looks and a bundle of nerves and health issues.

It's great to hear that the dogs you guys mention passed with flying colors.

Ewa

[buliebuse]

Hi Ewa, Jan, Paul
I agree it should be that they are testing for an even temperament etc - but the testing wasn't specific but 'random' for certain dogs.
Winnie sounds like good fun & I'm sure if Buse hadn't been on her back most of the time wanting her tummy tickled she'd have done the same thing !
Ju